Being overwhelmed by my bees / feeling despondent - advice please

[enrico]

I sympathise. 30 years ago I rang up the person who supplied me with my first bees and told him to take them away. He came round and together we went through the hive. I still have bad days like two days ago when they boiled out, I got to the third frame and gave in, put them back together and left them for another day, but 99 percent of the time I get on ok with my bees and them with me. I have been keeping them for those last 30 years, I am ever grateful to my supplier for encouraging me to go on.
The honey pouring into jars still gives me that tingling feeling!
Be patient, get a bee buddy and talk to them all the time you are inspecting them, the bees not the buddy!!!, it calms you down no end!
Well done for being brave enough to voice your fears. I am too far away in mid wales to help you but someone will.
All the best
E

 

[tonybloke]

I bought the Paul Metcalf video when I started and I find it useful to watch sections again. He is so calm and the swirl of bees reminds you of the reality of an inspection. I have purchased his updated video. he places one of the first frames flat over the brood body and that also leaves extra room to manipulate the remaining frames.

Good luck.

Paul taught me beekeeping. and yes, a lot of us in norfolk put the first frame out across the brood box.
I also use a dummy board.
when I inspect the brood box, I take out the dummy board, then the first frame which is laid across the rest of the brood area. as I work across the brood box, I put the frames tight to the side of the box, so that at the end of the inspection, the first frame now goes at the other side of the box, followed by the dummy board, no need to reposition all the frames this way.

 

[Moggs]

You may be fighting a losing battle after those first few squashed bees as the pheromone goes through the hive like wildfire, causing alarm. I found that the utmost gentle movements made such a lot of difference. If you're edgy, or in a hurry, this is soon picked up by the bees by the nature of the movement through the hive. In fact, I spent quite a while, deliberately wearing no gloves, just sitting to the side of a hive and allowing bees to play over my hands so that I could quietly 'unlearn' the reflex to react when bees were being inquisitive. Those who are more sensitive should not try this at home!

Now, with thin vinyl gloves as a barrier to propolis, hive inspections are generally more pleasurable and placing of frames much more measured and gentle. I feel the presence of bees under the frame lugs by just resting the lugs on the pads of the fingertips prior to placing them and it's easy just to give them a wiggle to free any prisoners. Yes, I get a sting or three if I get it wrong - but it certainly sharpens the learning curve!

It's quite amusing to watch the reaction of some when they see bees bimbling over my hands! It's a rare occasion that a bee stings just out of spite!

I'm not advocating this as a solution to the problem but would suggest that a very, very gentle approach may make all the difference. Keep calm, take big breaths and relax as you work gently through the combs.

Afterthought - are you washing beesuits regularly? (sting pheromone lasts for a while).

 

[johnmcc]

As a novice myself I know exactly how you feel, and think this is a wonderfully useful thread. This is my fourth year of beeking - and it is a very odd year. The weather has made everything difficult. I've not had to open hives in such low temperatures before, but if you're going to stop swarms what do you do? My bees sit in their hives for two or three miserable cold wet days, and then go mad when the sun's out. I'm seriously considering feeding a little fondant this week - in May, for goodness sake - because I'm not convinced they have enough stores for another three or four days of no foraging. My desire not to chill the hives makes me rush when opening them which causes more agitation from bees who clearly don't like the cold weather anyway. All I can really say is that it ain't like this in a "normal year". Oh for a week of warm sunshine!

 

[RoseCottage]

This is a good thread ... we all have moments of angst like you.

At the moment I have 4 of my 5 hives boiling over with bees. They are all 14*12 and one of them, the most vicious, is almost filling 2 of these brood boxes. When we inspected yesterday it was a case of toughing it out. Apparently one of mine swarmed an hour before we arrived but we couldn't tell which by numbers. The vicious colony were most likely but 2 14*12 BB and 2 supers all full of bees left us unsure. They were also filling the roof space too! We were in the hive when my farmer arrived 50yards away, unprotected. He took a hit to the chin almost immediately and fled as quick as he could (up goes my honey bill).

In these circumstances it is very hard not to kill bees accidentally. Even if bees are not aggressive when there are so many in the air I think it is inevitable that some will be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Also you will take some stings to your suit. If you imagine a crowded airspace, someone is going to get jumpy and sting and then it can become a freeforall frenzy due to the attack pheromone.

Last week I went home with 34 stings on the edges of my veil and this week 24. It can be uncomfortable unless you just ignore them and get on with things you need to do. Moggs' hands could be in challenging circumstances. I move as slow as I can, puff a little smoke to clear frame ends as needed and try to avoid breathing on them.

I find the toughest moments are when you have a tickle on the end of your nose and you cannot clear your veil to rub it...oh and when their pings are bouncing off your ears.

Honey production has exploded with the slightly improved weather and the vast bee numbers. We have been caught out and are now furiously building supers, BB's, and WBC lifts.

It will get easier when the older bees die off...I think since they haven't been flying they haven't been dying.

Usually life is much gentler than just now,

Chin up (but out of range),
All the best,
Sam

 

[merylvingien]

I think a simple fact is being missed out here, that being genetics. You get nice bees you get nasty bees.
When you get a mixture of semi aggressive and a big number it can be daunting, but suit up well and take no nonsence from them, just go steady at it and do what you intended to do. You just have to tough it out i am afraid.

Having said that, when you come across highly aggresive, and i am certain that in hampshire there is a concentrated genome of highly aggresive bees, then you cannot allow that to continue, not only for yourself, but also for the saftey of others.

Last year i attended a day at our local association "get to know bees" day and witnessed newcomers getting stung to kingdom come. I was stood yards away with a camera and that was getting hit big time.

Its no good to just put up with this behaviour.

As a pest controller i get to see all sorts every day, bees when bad are by far the most dangerous insect when bad tempered and up for a fight. Protect yourself.

 

[Moggs]

True enough that a nasty colony requires all protective measures. As you say, the answer is to deal with these traits pdq. Fortunately, I can't remember the last time that I had to wear those abominable leather gauntlets. That credit goes largely to the bees, not me!

 

[Cazza]

Loads of great advice here.
My two pennorth is to go to a local meeting. I did this yesterday feeling like a completely useless beekeeper and came away feeling that I'm not so bad after all. It was a real boost after a bad beekeeping patch.
Cazza

 

[BCBEE]

Afterthought - are you washing beesuits regularly? (sting pheromone lasts for a while).

Just as a matter of interest. Is there something special that you should use as regards soap, wahing powder etc. i imagine you must avoid highly scented stuff but is there a washing powder thats best. Non bio or fairly for instance?

 

[FreeFall]

Just as a matter of interest. Is there something special that you should use as regards soap, wahing powder etc. i imagine you must avoid highly scented stuff but is there a washing powder thats best. Non bio or fairly for instance?

Use plain washing soda (sodium carbonate). Also useful for cleaning hive tools and boiling frames in.

Not to be confused with caustic soda

Nick

 

[BCBEE]

Use plain washing soda (sodium carbonate). Also useful for cleaning hive tools and boiling frames in.

Not to be confused with caustic soda

Nick

Great stuff thanks nick

 

[ksjs]

First of, a big thanks for all the replies, very encouraging and I definitely felt a sigh of relief as I read through these. Maybe the biggest thing to come out of the replies was to continue with care but confidence and, strongly consider getting a helping hand on the scene.

I've made a few comments based on some of the points raised and have a few further questions:

- I haven't been using smoke (naïve idealism perhaps), maybe I should revert to using it and / or a mist spray.
- I've just completed a beginner's course, have attended apiary meets (am a Conwy BKA member) but find it hard to do so at times as I often work weekends and have visited several other beeks' apiaries during inspections. I have a couple of friends who keep bees too and could get in touch with someone in my immediate area if needed. I'm not all my own but I do prefer to work things out by myself. Getting someone to come along for a bit of hand-holding and assurance would however be very worthwhile.
- I don't lack confidence handling the bees / frames, 'stress' maybe isn't the right word, maybe exasperated is a better description.
- The super that's on is effectively additional brood space as there's no QE. I am limited somewhat in what I can do due to fact I have no drawn comb and the weather is so... bad – I want to use an expletive but will refrain.
- I am aware of removing frames etc to facilitate inspection, I already do this (remove dummy board and stores), I replace frames / shunt them back together by slowly bringing them close so as to make bees aware of impending doom if they don't move, open up space again between frames to let bees move, bring things back together and do this a few times until I'm happy bees are out of the way.
- Vaseline on runners is a good idea just to make life a bit easier, will try this.
- All 11 frames in use, at moment, 2 are stores, 8 are brood and 1 is in the latter stages of being drawn, I assume this will end up for use with brood.
- V interesting post from Chris re down-wind etc, will try this and will also give gloves a wash between inspections (which I haven't been doing) and may even stretch to washing suit as I've never washed it.
- I'm using self-spacing frames. Still I just don't see how after you've broken the brace comb that you can easily put frames back together without really pissing everyone off, even with careful use of the gentle shuffling back-and-forth technique.
- I'd say bees are of good temperament, at least they certainly were last year but they were far smaller then and had a different queen. I wouldn't say they were bad-tempered now, just boisterous. My veil isn't covered with bees, let's say there's maybe 20-30 on there. Lack of me smoking them might be making things worse.
- I will seek to be extra extra gentle next time and not thrown off this plan by the sheer volume / mass / chaos of what they're doing.

Questions:

- Why not split them now if this is my intention anyway?
- Is additional brood space BENEATH the BB more useful than above, are they any more likely to draw this out than a super above?
- Can they really keep increasing in number without something happening? I mean they're packed in there and there's a whole stack more eggs / larvae about to be added. Am I simply under-estimating how many bees can actually fit into the space?
- Do people expect to see any stores in a strong colony's BB during height of season i.e. should all frames be brood?
- Surely if you place a frame flat over brood will it not just leak if it has uncapped honey? Also, does it not cover so much area that you want to look at that part of the BB within minutes of setting the frame flat on there?

Cheers all !

 

[drex]

Glad to hear you are a little more upbeat.
8 frames of brood, so they need more space for brood, and you have it in the super above as you have no QE on. I think the main key to comb drawing is the temp, and it is still not very warm. Boxes above are likely to be warmer than below.

I feel it is better to work with the bees and split when they show they are ready by making swarm cells.

Where the stores are depends on strength of colony and hive configuration.. Stores will generally be above the brood. A strong colony with plenty of storage space may just have brood in the BB.

If conditions are right they will keep expanding until they decide to swarm. The last hive for me to AS was my double brood box, which showed no signs of swarm cells until this weekend, when both boxes were virtually full of brood. Had As'd my brood and half over last few weeks.

No definite answers in beekeeping, sorry
Keep smiling


The idea of placing farme on top of the top bars is somewhere to rest it out of the way, and covering the bees so they do not get too agitated ( same idea as covering cloth)

 

[user 6228]

yep a full hive is intimidating and even a few bees pinging you is off putting
add a few stings and then you get the twitch a reactive flinch and anxiety . which is a natural mammalian reaction to defensive bees. Its the programming of millenia in both us and them.

Things I found help the "twitch" ( Experienced bee keepers turn away and stop laughing)

Keep the hands in contact with wood of the hive try to grip the wood/poly harder rather than flinch when the bees land on hands.

It helps to stop the natual flinch reaction and the bees see your hands as part of the hive. Tell your self this as you do it ("my hands are part of the hive")

When moving, slide the hands along surfaces of the hive to reach frames. This will help stop you flinching and will stop bees getting trapped and stinging.

concentrate on moving slowly and steadily. (helps keep you calm and probably calms the bees)

Work out what you are going to do and if you cant do it close up the hive.

Think postively and clearly about STICKing to the PLAN if for any reason

you cant follow the plan CLOSE UP the hive.

dont go back to a hive for at least 6 days

Work the for late morning not early afternoon so avoiding the peak of activity when they launch the drones.

 

[Poly Hive]

First of all if you are not using smoke then sorry but... you are getting issues that are totally avoidable. Self inflicted injuries comes to mind.

Yes your 2nd brood goes under and they will move into in and lay up even if they are not utilizing the super for honey. Trust me on this.

No idea why you are getting the brace comb? Check your spacings.

Getting a competent person to assist for a couple of times will massively boost your confidence, but find that rotten dry wood and get that smoker going!

PH

 

[enrico]

(quote)When moving, slide the hands along surfaces of the hive to reach frames. This will help stop you flinching and will stop bees getting trapped and stinging.

concentrate on moving slowly and steadily. (helps keep you calm and probably calms the bees)

Work out what you are going to do and if you cant do it close up the hive.

Think postively and clearly about STICKing to the PLAN if for any reason

you cant follow the plan CLOSE UP the hive.

dont go back to a hive for at least 6 days

Work the for late morning not early afternoon so avoiding the peak of activity when they launch the drones.(unquote)


Oh so important..,...well said Derek

 

[REDWOOD]

This does work if the bees are mild natured, with a more moody colony you are just as likely to get a faceful of angry bees (like I did last weekend ) Back of fingers works as well and making sure that the frame is mostly still in the hive if it needs shaking to help keep them down.

It's all about knowing when to do it.

 

[Swarm]

Have to agree with Poly Hive, get the smoker out. You can decide how much you use it but you should have it with you.

 

[ksjs]

I feel it is better to work with the bees and split when they show they are ready by making swarm cells.

But why?

 

[AnotherNewBee]

Better to have a lit smoker and not need it than have an unlit smoker and need it.