Beginner woes and triumphs

[ShinySideUp]

Opened my two hives today. Schrodinger (my older colony by three weeks) is heavy with bees and honey, Heisenberg not so much but bees are far more aggressive as for the second week I haven't been able to get more than halfway through before I lost my nerve with bees ramming my hands.

S has filled a super in just one week, indeed I thought the bees had stuck it down somewhere where I couldn't get my hive tool. It was only when I gave it a good heave that I realised there was about 15kg of honey in it and that it was practically full up. When I put the hive back together I added another super.

H has bees that don't like me. For two weeks running they have rammed my hands and since I got stung last time I wore heavier gloves and I could see them trying to sting every time I reached for the frame lugs. I only got halfway through the inspection before I lost my nerve and pulled out, I added another super just in case and left it at that. H is really putting me off but I suspect that what I might call aggression other beekeepers would call mildly irritated. Next time I go in I am going to wear ear defenders under my veil as it might be that I'm getting stressed because of the noise; I hope this is the case. I haven't seen the queen since I put them in their hive after receiving them in a nuc but I know she is there because of the dramatic increase in numbers over the last three weeks. It's not that they are concerned that the top is off, indeed if I open the hive and do nothing they don't bother, but as soon as my hands touch the frame they are off only to relax again if I take my hands away. I have even thicker gloves coming so I think that will help.

I am getting a big honey flow though, so that at least is a triumph, however more woes than triumphs for the time being.

Hey ho, onward and upward.

 

[Anduril]

Would you be confident enough to make up a nuc to create queen cells from your good hive to replace the not so friendly queen. Probably a big leap but if you could get assistance all the better for your enjoyment. As hives get bigger it feels more daunting.

 

[JWF]

It sounds like one hive is much grumpier than the other - and that can really dent your confidence. Personally, I found that my bees temperament improved once I ditched the big gloves and moved over to marigolds, as I was less likely to squish bees during an inspection.

Another thing you could try which would help reduce the number of flying bees is a cover cloth, like this :

http://cornishhoney.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=250

You can always use a bedsheet rather than buying that one.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Opened my two hives today. Schrodinger (my older colony by three weeks) is heavy with bees and honey, Heisenberg not so much but bees are far more aggressive as for the second week I haven't been able to get more than halfway through before I lost my nerve with bees ramming my hands.

S has filled a super in just one week, indeed I thought the bees had stuck it down somewhere where I couldn't get my hive tool. It was only when I gave it a good heave that I realised there was about 15kg of honey in it and that it was practically full up. When I put the hive back together I added another super.

H has bees that don't like me. For two weeks running they have rammed my hands and since I got stung last time I wore heavier gloves and I could see them trying to sting every time I reached for the frame lugs. I only got halfway through the inspection before I lost my nerve and pulled out, I added another super just in case and left it at that. H is really putting me off but I suspect that what I might call aggression other beekeepers would call mildly irritated. Next time I go in I am going to wear ear defenders under my veil as it might be that I'm getting stressed because of the noise; I hope this is the case. I haven't seen the queen since I put them in their hive after receiving them in a nuc but I know she is there because of the dramatic increase in numbers over the last three weeks. It's not that they are concerned that the top is off, indeed if I open the hive and do nothing they don't bother, but as soon as my hands touch the frame they are off only to relax again if I take my hands away. I have even thicker gloves coming so I think that will help.

I am getting a big honey flow though, so that at least is a triumph, however more woes than triumphs for the time being.

Hey ho, onward and upward.

We had a lady doctor join our association practical training sessions and she was extremely cautious about getting stung on her hands. She sprayed Fabispray or Apifuge onto her gloves and the bees seemed to avoid her hands. Certainly she didn't report any stings after use.
If you have problems with one hive but not the other it certainly suggests requeening. However have you exhausted other possible differences/factors? Do you open the problem hive second when there might be a lot of bees from the first hive up in the air, is the location such that you appear to the bees to be a threat looming overhead in silhouette, are you just scared of this hive as a conditioned reflex?
There'll be a solution but you need to find it.

 

[Psycad]

It sounds like one hive is much grumpier than the other - and that can really dent your confidence. Personally, I found that my bees temperament improved once I ditched the big gloves and moved over to marigolds, as I was less likely to squish bees during an inspection.

Another thing you could try which would help reduce the number of flying bees is a cover cloth, like this :

http://cornishhoney.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=250

You can always use a bedsheet rather than buying that one.

Greetings fellow beekeepers

My hive was delivered with a cover cloth : cut out of a coarse nylon sack. Works perfect and prevent bees reaching cover of hive

BTW : Why these strange names heisenberg and shrodiger for the hives ?
Sorry derail

 

[colinc]

My queenless hive, I am certain of that as I made it queenless to requeen, has just hatched a queen as my wife heard her piping last night. They have had no eggs for 3 weeks now but all the hatching brood is not in cells so the hive seems a lot more populated. No larvae to feed and loads of stores. The bees are all on the faces of combs. Your noisy aggressive hive might be queenless if you haven't inspected it, even with an increasing population. Have you seen eggs in your foreshortened inspections?


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[madasafish]

Greetings fellow beekeepers

M
BTW : Why these strange names heisenberg and shrodiger for the hives ?
Sorry derail

Schrodinger's Wave Equation
Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

Famous Physicists.

Schrodinger also had a cat...

 

[kevrhcfag]

Schrodinger's Wave Equation
Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

Famous Physicists.

Schrodinger also had a cat...

Or not, possibly dead or alive who knows who cares.


As for OP it can really put a dent in your enjoying and easily put you off beekeeping. As teh hives grows in strength the likelyhood is it might get more defensive. I would certainly go requeening route before it gets out of hand. Take some brood off it and give them foundation in the mean time to slow them up.

 

[ShinySideUp]

Would you be confident enough to make up a nuc to create queen cells from your good hive to replace the not so friendly queen. Probably a big leap but if you could get assistance all the better for your enjoyment. As hives get bigger it feels more daunting.

Unlikely but I do have the equipment and it would greatly increase my knowledge so I'll read up more on that specific subject.

It sounds like one hive is much grumpier than the other - and that can really dent your confidence. Personally, I found that my bees temperament improved once I ditched the big gloves and moved over to marigolds, as I was less likely to squish bees during an inspection.

Another thing you could try which would help reduce the number of flying bees is a cover cloth, like this :

http://cornishhoney.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=250

You can always use a bedsheet rather than buying that one.

I started with thin gloves last week but moved to thicker ones this time as I got stung before; Tesco Tough gloves, very effective, cheap and I can still feel the bees. I thought myself about using a cover and that is something I'm definitely going to try. I was wondering about making something from light wood with a moveable slot in it but I'll start with a cloth.

We had a lady doctor join our association practical training sessions and she was extremely cautious about getting stung on her hands. She sprayed Fabispray or Apifuge onto her gloves and the bees seemed to avoid her hands. Certainly she didn't report any stings after use.
If you have problems with one hive but not the other it certainly suggests requeening. However have you exhausted other possible differences/factors? Do you open the problem hive second when there might be a lot of bees from the first hive up in the air, is the location such that you appear to the bees to be a threat looming overhead in silhouette, are you just scared of this hive as a conditioned reflex?
There'll be a solution but you need to find it.

The first time I inspected I was casting a shadow but the second time I came in from the other side to exclude that very thing -- no difference. Yes, to your second point hence the thought about wearing ear defenders just to take to edge off.

Greetings fellow beekeepers

My hive was delivered with a cover cloth : cut out of a coarse nylon sack. Works perfect and prevent bees reaching cover of hive

BTW : Why these strange names heisenberg and shrodiger for the hives ?
Sorry derail

I had to call the hives something for identity purposes and as I like physics I thought I'd name them after famous physicists: viz. Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle and Schrödinger's [thought experimental] Cat.

My queenless hive, I am certain of that as I made it queenless to requeen, has just hatched a queen as my wife heard her piping last night. They have had no eggs for 3 weeks now but all the hatching brood is not in cells so the hive seems a lot more populated. No larvae to feed and loads of stores. The bees are all on the faces of combs. Your noisy aggressive hive might be queenless if you haven't inspected it, even with an increasing population. Have you seen eggs in your foreshortened inspections?

My brain has not yet adapted to easily seeing eggs although I can spot larvae pretty well now (and have done on the inspections).

Much to try here but I'll wait until next weekend as if they are grumpy now opening them twice in two days is not going to help.

The cover cloth seems the most promising quick-fix so I'll look into that immediately especially as the hives are really well-populated and extremely busy.

I think it's just beginners nerves really as many bees can be quite daunting to the inexperienced. I have started going to apiary meetings with the local association but the bees there are lambs compared with mine (although they are captured swarms and not numerous at the moment, a few weeks and it will be different.).

Thanks for your replies.


PS Sorry, I missed out the last two posts as I was replying as you were replying. I was going to get a tattoo of Schrodinger's Wave Function but was terrified the tattooist might get it slightly wrong and I'd have to spend the rest of my life explaiing to physicists about the error!

 

[colinc]

I was going to get a tattoo of Schrodinger's Wave Function but was terrified the tattooist might get it slightly wrong and I'd have to spend the rest of my life explaiing to physicists about the error! [/QUOTE]


Probably a good decision. Safer to get one of his cat [emoji6]



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[Psycad]

Thank you Shiny Side Up

Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle
Schrödinger's [thought experimental] Cat

I am not familiar with these principles and Heisenberg is the WW in Breaking Bad (that is an HBO movie on TV)

It must be great to be smart enough to understand above physics and still be interested in bees (unless bees are an illustration of these physics)

Too complicated but good inspiration

Salaam

 

[colinc]

Thank you Shiny Side Up



Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle

Schrödinger's [thought experimental] Cat



I am not familiar with these principles and Heisenberg is the WW in Breaking Bad (that is an HBO movie on TV)



It must be great to be smart enough to understand above physics and still be interested in bees (unless bees are an illustration of these physics)



Too complicated but good inspiration



Salaam

Walt was a chemist and physicist so took the assumed name "Heisenberg" from his physicist hero to use in his drug dealings. OP named his hive for the same reason, a tribute, not to hide his identity for shady drug production. [emoji6]


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[ShinySideUp]

It is also be a reference as to whether or not my bees will make it through the winter as that is also 'uncertain'. The reference also applies to Schrodinger's cat as come April are the bees 'alive or dead'.

 

[drex]

When you go to your association apiary meetings, I suggest you ask one of the mentors to take you through the meanest hive they have there. You will see how an experienced beek handles bees and I am sure it will help your confidence. Sometimes, even the best of us know when it is time to close up a hive. It is better to come back another day, when their temper may have improved, than to tolerate a miserable inspection

 

[pargyle]

It is also be a reference as to whether or not my bees will make it through the winter as that is also 'uncertain'. The reference also applies to Schrodinger's cat as come April are the bees 'alive or dead'.

Firstly, gloves .. Try a pair of marigolds a size less than you really need and then put a pair of nitrile gloves on top .. they can just about get a sting through those two layers but there's not enough left to really get into your skin. In addition, buy some Olbas Oil from the pharmacy. A few drops rubbed on your gloves will move the bees away from your hands when you are handling them.

Thicker gloves are never really an answer, you need to be able to feel through the gloves when you lift the frames, if you have thicker gloves the tendency is to squish bees and that always makes them angry.

Secondly, use your hive tool to lift the edge of the frame you want to remove and then get hold of the lug between your finger and thumb .. giving the bees time to move out of the way - you can use your middle finger to gently move any bees that are in the way out of the way.

Thirdly, do you have a dummy board in the hive (against the end wall) - if not, make one and get it in there. By removing the dummy board first it gives you a bit of space to move the frames sideways before lifting them - less chance of rolling the bees as you pull the frame up and less bees that feel under threat.

Fourthly, talk to them, tell them what you are doing .. and what you are going to do, ask them to move out of the way ... it does nothing for the bees but it's surprising what a calming effect it has on the beekeeper !

Lastly, go slowly, very slowly, if you use a smoker let the smoke drift across the top of the hive don't puff it straight into the box ... give them a few puffs and then leave them for a minute or two while you tell them what's going off .. give them time to get some honey down their throats ... then, another couple of puffs and start your manipulations.

If I'm teaching granny to suck eggs I'm sorry - but these are all tricks my mentor brought to my beekeeping and it does make a difference. There is nothing much more unpleasant than bees that are trying to kill you.

Finally, if they are really not liking you then there is no shame in giving up halfway through an inspection - we are mostly hobbyists on here and there is no pressure to get through all the hives on the day you choose. It's better to quit while you are ahead than carry on and make life a misery for you and the bees ... they will be better another day - don't knock yourself out just because today is Thursday and it's supposed to be inspection day... another day won't hurt !

Keep the faith ...and try to relax.

 

[ShinySideUp]

Firstly, gloves .. Try a pair of marigolds a size less than you really need and then put a pair of nitrile gloves on top .. they can just about get a sting through those two layers but there's not enough left to really get into your skin. In addition, buy some Olbas Oil from the pharmacy. A few drops rubbed on your gloves will move the bees away from your hands when you are handling them.

Thicker gloves are never really an answer, you need to be able to feel through the gloves when you lift the frames, if you have thicker gloves the tendency is to squish bees and that always makes them angry.

Secondly, use your hive tool to lift the edge of the frame you want to remove and then get hold of the lug between your finger and thumb .. giving the bees time to move out of the way - you can use your middle finger to gently move any bees that are in the way out of the way.

Thirdly, do you have a dummy board in the hive (against the end wall) - if not, make one and get it in there. By removing the dummy board first it gives you a bit of space to move the frames sideways before lifting them - less chance of rolling the bees as you pull the frame up and less bees that feel under threat.

Fourthly, talk to them, tell them what you are doing .. and what you are going to do, ask them to move out of the way ... it does nothing for the bees but it's surprising what a calming effect it has on the beekeeper !

Lastly, go slowly, very slowly, if you use a smoker let the smoke drift across the top of the hive don't puff it straight into the box ... give them a few puffs and then leave them for a minute or two while you tell them what's going off .. give them time to get some honey down their throats ... then, another couple of puffs and start your manipulations.

If I'm teaching granny to suck eggs I'm sorry - but these are all tricks my mentor brought to my beekeeping and it does make a difference. There is nothing much more unpleasant than bees that are trying to kill you.

Finally, if they are really not liking you then there is no shame in giving up halfway through an inspection - we are mostly hobbyists on here and there is no pressure to get through all the hives on the day you choose. It's better to quit while you are ahead than carry on and make life a misery for you and the bees ... they will be better another day - don't knock yourself out just because today is Thursday and it's supposed to be inspection day... another day won't hurt !

Keep the faith ...and try to relax.

Good advice. When I say thicker gloves I don't mean big leather things but some enchanced nitrile ones. As I said above I have used Tesco Tough gloves and they seemed to do the trick.

I do have a dummy board. Not only that but I tend to take the last frame out and put it on the ground (checking for queen first) so that gives me a fair bit of space.

It's one thing to pick up the frame with finger and thumb when the bees get out of the way -- except they don't. Next time I'm going to try a cloth cover to keep the other frames obscured.

I'm quite happy at this stage to be taught how to suck eggs, by my granny or anyone else for that matter. Beekeeping is such a black art that any advice, no matter how often repeated in a different form, is still good advice and I thank you for your interest.

 

[ShinySideUp]

One other thing. I watched a video of an American who had a seriously aggressive hive and what he did was pick up the whole thing, move it twenty yards away and, leaving a nuc box in the original place, waited for an hour until the flyers buggered off back home leaving him with a calm hive for inspection. Afterwards he picked the whole thing up again and moved it back, whereupon the aggressive flyers went back in. Seems a lot of hard work but he was dealing with bees that were truly nasty and it did seem to work.

 

[BeeJuice]

The only time my bees attacked my hands like that was when I wore some gloves with a black rubber palm. They hate the colour black.

 

[user 6228]

It is also be a reference as to whether or not my bees will make it through the winter as that is also 'uncertain'. The reference also applies to Schrodinger's cat as come April are the bees 'alive or dead'.

You could name a particularly noisy hive Nyquist. A wooden or very "hot" hive Planck. A flow hive Reynold or Stokes perhaps. A particularly productive and brilliant hive Dirac. Perhaps this becoming a Bohr?

Anyone who has studied quantum or statistical mechanics must find the honeybee individual behaviours "adding up" to the properties of the super organism particularly fascinating.

 

[ShinySideUp]

I don't think I can use any of those and will therefore invoke Pauli's Exclusion Principle.

Drop them into the deepest water hole, a Maxwell if you like.

And to fasten the hives together we need a Boltzmann.

I could go on but here, make up your own:

http://www.thefamouspeople.com/physicists.php

PS I've just looked through the entire list, that's a lot of physicists.