bees making their own nest at top of hive

[Bremar]

I am new to bee keeping. 9 days now. A swarm was put into my hive from the top. The hive only had the brood box at the bottom in. We (my son and I we advised to wait 9 days to let them settle in and start hatching before we had a look. We have taken the top off and the main nest appears to be stuck to the roof, although their are other bees in the brood box. My friend who has bees too hasn't come across this problem.What do I do? Help!
Bremar and thanks in advance

 

[LittleGreyRabbit]

I am new to bee keeping. 9 days now. A swarm was put into my hive from the top. The hive only had the brood box at the bottom in. We (my son and I we advised to wait 9 days to let them settle in and start hatching before we had a look. We have taken the top off and the main nest appears to be stuck to the roof, although their are other bees in the brood box. My friend who has bees too hasn't come across this problem.What do I do? Help!
Bremar and thanks in advance

Hi, can you post a photograph? It sounds like "wild comb" - some colonies (like mine when it started) have a propensity to fill up any space, not just draw out the frames, eg creating their own "frames" of comb stuck to whatever is above like the roof. They can do this incredibly quickly: I opened up one day to find a starfish-shaped wild comb in the roof space. Do you have the brood box filled up with frames (you don't say)? In your place, I would remove all the "nest" (comb) that is stuck to the roof before the queen lays eggs in it or you lose the queen in the labyrinth.

 

[susbees]

First, what is happening in the brood box? How many drawn frames, how much brood? Any stores...assume you haven't been feeding them?

Is there brood in the roof or just stores? Or have they filled the brood box and need more space?

To suggest things we need a bit more info. However, blocking off the bee escape(s) in the crown board unless feeding (feeder across the hole) would have stopped it before it started.

Welcome by the way

 

[ColinS]

Hi - do you have a crown board in place ?

If you can't get photos, May help to say what you have in place - such as floor, Brood box, roof and the type of hive and frames with foundation or drawn.

 

[oliver90owner]

Very simply, bees should not be able to access the roof. The crownboard should be the ceiling to the colony. Lots seem to think there should be a hole right through the hive, but I have no such problems - the upper limit for the bees is the 460 square sheet of ply, the crownboard. KISS principle often avoids complications.

Welcome to the forum, btw.

Just remember beekeeping is a series of simple manipulations after careful thought for the optimum solution to any apparent problem before it occurs. Waiting for a problem to arise is best avoided.

RAB

 

[ColinS]

sorry susbees your post not there when I started - slow typing here -

 

[Bremar]

Ok I need to go back in and check. Decided to just put the lid back on and ask for directions. I can't imagin in 9 days the brood box would be full but I dont know enough about bee keeping and didnt keep the roof off for that long because it had the nest on it. The brood box is full of frames and it had a makeshift crown board and feeder over the hole.
I can have a look again but do not want to keep disturbing them so i would like to do something if I look. i expect I need to find a local beekeeper for help not sure how to pull everything apart in the roof to find the queen. I will take some photos but not till later.
I presume the upshot is that I need to get the nest in the roof removed and if the queen is there get her back in the brood box? yes?

 

[oliver90owner]

I presume the upshot is that I need to get the nest in the roof removed and if the queen is there get her back in the brood box? yes?

Correct. But little point unless you address the initial problem of access!

RAB

 

[ColinS]

Was the feeder in an eke or super or on top of crown board with roof on or a miller type ?
When you look again - look for eggs or larvae or even capped brood in the roof comb, if it is just stores you can shake the bees off and scrape the roof clean and enjoy some honey in comb - probably sugar syrup but okay for home use. If you have brood in the roof comb then get a queen excluder make sure she is in the bood box and allow the brood to hatch in the roof space - 21 days, fill with crumpled paper to stop the comb being extended. For varroa control lose the drone brood that is left. Alt you can wire in the comb into brood frames and let it hatch that way - can't post photos yet but utube has a few examples of swarm collections and wiring comb.

Don't worry about times between openings, as long as it is warm - better you know what is happening, get them sorted and you feel happy while you are on your learning curve.

Check out the term "bee-space"

 

[victor meldrew]

First, what is happening in the brood box? How many drawn frames, how much brood? Any stores...assume you haven't been feeding them?

Is there brood in the roof or just stores? Or have they filled the brood box and need more space?

To suggest things we need a bit more info. However, blocking off the bee escape(s) in the crown board unless feeding (feeder across the hole) would have stopped it before it started.

Welcome by the way

You need to have some one look at the situation ! you may have things stacked up all wrong !

VM

 

[oliver90owner]

From the OP.

9 days now. A swarm was put into my hive

We (my son and I we advised to wait 9 days to let them settle in and start hatching before we had a look.

So presumably this was a prime swarm? and so they would have hatched three days after she started laying (perhaps three days later). Each will take 21 days to emerge as an imago.

If they were advised by a competent beek, everything seems sensible to me. Perhaps not a perfect description, but adequate.

 

[Bremar]

HI,
there is a brood box 12 slides with brand new foundation on them,crown board with hole and feeder on top of hole. My bee keeper friend has sort advise he says:
need to be realy start again by making them use the brood box. Maybe crown board not good enough as it was a piece of clear perspex cut to size. Suggested it was not heavy enough. Need to be tough on them and remove roof and nest shake them onto board leading up hive entrace. Put the queen bee excluder in place not just crown board then but plywood crownboard (as suggested by forum) ontop of excluder. Break open the old nest to help persuade bees up ramp.Do this at dusk.

 

[Bremar]

thanks so far. i have a wbc hive with brood box only. crown board without quuen excluder and feeder over hole in crown board. It has been suggested that the crown board which I made out of perspex was to light or dosnt fit properly/It is recomended I replace with plywood one. Plus need to remove lid shake bees onto board outside and let them crwl up into have having properly sealed crownboard and also but a queen excluder in place.
One thing I am not sure about is that I was told not to put a super in to start with. Yet some else has suggested that the building in the roof is because the bees need to store the honey and that I should have had a super in place in the first plave

 

[FreeFall]

Firstly, forget about the queen excluder and super for now - the two go hand-in-hand and are just complicating matters at the moment. There are two things we really need to know - 1. Has the queen been laying in the comb above the crownboard? and 2. What is happening in the brood box - are they making new comb on the frames of foundation that you put in?

What needs to happen is to get all the bees (especially the queen) below the crownboard and make it bee-tight so they can't get back up. If there is a hole in the crownboard it needs covering with a tile/piece of wood (or the feeder if feeding).

 

[ColinS]

One possiblity is that you have two colonies in the WBC - one in the brood the other got into the roof. Go watch and see where the bees are entering and leaving from, no need to open up. Are there two streams? Or the brood box is not sealed to the space in the lfts and the bees are filling space. Look for eggs/larvae/capped brood in the roof comb. Stores capping is lighter colour. It is unlikely the queen is leaving the BB to lay in roof and visa versa, unless there are 2 queens so, if brood in both locations - congrats - you probably have 2 colonies!

As for puting bees on ramp just shake(shook) them into the brood box, remove the lifts, put an empty super on top to catch them. Shake and then tap sharply the roof to move them. Then spary with water to get them down, remove super and seal the top of the BB. If you can find the queen only look if there is brood there then walk her across on to a frame via a feather. Ramping is a nice way of moving a swarm from a collection box to a hive but you don't need to do that.

Ask your expert if you have top or bottom bee space as with top bee space any flat board can be used as a crown board for now. Bottom bee space will need a 6-8mm lip.

As a bee keeper you want the bees to draw the brood chamber frames/slides first so the queen can lay and food stored. When they are close to finishing drawing the brood frames - that is, they are just starting to draw out the outer 2 frames on each side that is the time to put a super on.

 

[enrico]

Hey Colin, see that was only your fifth post. Well impressed, consise description of what might have happened and what needs to be done.....
E