bees have just killed my chickens?

[Poly Hive]

Yes they seemed nice, sorry singular, young chap, seemed a bit taken aback by my comments re gardens..........

Very wooly thinker that I did note.

I did say that the worst chooks can do is peck ankles and bees do worse but it sailed over his head.

What is experience worth?

PH

 

[Haughton Honey]

Don't worry. I suspect that the plastic bee container will be fairly short-lived.....

 

[Geoff]

Well I keep bees in the garden and my main source of information and guidance is someone who has probably more experience than anyone else I know - he was the beekeeper on Victorian Farm. He knows i keep bees in the garden and has never discouraged it, cause he knows I take sensible precautions.
People getting killed or badly injured or livestock getting killed are unusual, as can be assumed from the reaction here. To say that bees in gardens are a ticking time bomb, as PH as previously said is just over reaction. To follow that logic bees should not be in urban areas or anywhere near human habitation. Most deaths by bee stings are caused by allergic reactions to a single sting and that can happen anywhere where a bee may be, such as putting a hand on a bee while collecting washing.
To state that alll bees are dangerous is an over exaggeration and just scares newcomers which has already happened on this forum. Bees need respect and precautions need to be taken.
It reminds me of people who think that all Rottweillers are dangerous because some children have been mauled to death or permanently disfigured. Now to make such a sweeping generalisation would be nonsence though I would think more people have been killed by dogs than by bees. Incidentally if you came in my garden the bees would be no problem and neither are they to my neighbours. You would be much more bothered by my German Shepherd.
The bees in the garden have been chosen for their gentleness. We cut the lawn and weed round the hives. If I have to suit up to go near the hives then they don't stay , they go to the out apiary. I walk round the hives in shorts and T shirt when the weather suits and I can pop open the crown board for a peek if necessary. But not if their mood is not right. Having bees in the garden means I can observe them every day. I was taught to listen to them and watch their behaviour as they go in and out. Sometimes you know they will be crabby before you even lift the roof.

 

[Midland Beek]

Bee's killed a horse and badly stung a second one, plus the owner, down my way a couple of seasons ago......

Horses can suffer from anaphylaxis (however you spell it), just like humans.

There was an incident a few years ago when a horse fell onto its rider, killing the rider. My suspicion was that the horse may have been stung because of the close proximity of someone's apiary ... Not my own bees, I hasten to add.

 

[Roy S]

Geoff, with the amount of new beekeepers in the craft with no experience of aggressive colonies, or what to do if things start going wrong, then I think the ticking time bomb is a VERY apt analogy.

I don't class myself as allergic, and have been keeping bees for a good while yet suffered massively quite recently. After a few tests now I think its safe to say that it was indeed caused by the ibuprofen I had taken earlier in the day.

Thing is, having now found this out and chatting to other beekeepers in our association, (and others) it turns out that a good few are on non steroidal anti inflammatory medication, and a few have exhibited signs of hypersensitivity that they just put down to "just one of those things".

So if there are people in our midst taking these drugs with possible side effects then how many are sitting on the other sides of fences blissfully unaware there is an aggressive colony in the making maybe not 30-40 feet away??...I'll bet a lot more than we'd feel comfortable with. this is before we even go near people with genuine allergy problems. As for dogs, I treat all dogs as potential killers and wouldn't leave my children in he presence of one unattended. One thing nearly all attacks have in common is the belief of the owners that the animal "was friendly and wouldn't harm children!"

Ask any parents whose child has been hurt, and they would do anything to turn back time. Why not just stop it in the first place by using common sense, putting others safety first and stop assuming things wont happen (when they do)
If aircraft engineers worked on this basis, aircraft safety wouldn't be improving because hardly any of them crash anyway do they?

If it can happen IT WILL, the cemeteries are full of people who thought it would never happen to them.

 

[m100]

Everying seemed well today until this afternoon I went to place the catch tray for my varoa floors. No sooner had I slid the tray in I heared them getting very active and flying outside of the hive. they went mad!

Firstly you reduced the hive entrance, for a nuc a two bee gap is suitable, for a colony, even under wasp attack its far too small IMHO A sheet of perspex 10mm in front of the hive entrance with a normal entrance block (8mm x 100mm opening) should suffice.

Depending on your mesh floor design and the insert design you probably instantly removed their only other form of access to the hive cavity, the mesh floor, when fitting the the varroa insert. There could have been thousands of bees clustered under the mesh floor passing nectar to house bees 'trapped' inside. When fitting the insert you sliced through them, they fell to the floor and then got very angry.

I wonder if this info is on the Beehaus site?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

I challenged their rep at Stoneleigh to no avail.

At Stoneleigh this year, really?

I never saw any Beehaus at Stoneleigh!

 

[Geoff]

Roy S if someone is putting a load of aggressive bees on the other side of the fence then they need locking up. If they did it on the other side of the fence to me then environmental health would find out cause they would be preventing me from enjoying my garden.
Just because some bees are like that does not mean all bees are like that. Just because you treat all dogs as potential killers does not mean they are. You are just making a sweeping generalisation. The same as "all men are potential rapists", all strangers are potential paedaphiles". You misrepresent my argument. I have never said you should not take precautions. I would never leave a child on their own with my dog though I know my dog would willingly sacrifice her life to protect me if it were necessary.
With bees i ensure my bees are gentle, their flight path is directed up above head height and I don't open the hive if neighbours are having a barbecue or similar. These are things we should be telling newcomers, not scaring them off. But some, even seasoned bee keepers are not familiar with how docile some bees can be. They put up with bees that I would not have in the garden. I am not scared of them but I have the luxury of being able to locate a hive at the back of a farm so very defensive bees can go there. But I want bees in the garden, I like seeing them, as do my neighbours, and I want them as pollinaters. My out apiary is too far for that so I have hives that can co- exist with people and are sited appropriately.
Are you more likely to be stung if the beehive is out of sight over a fence? The bees can't see you and when they fly out they are at about 15 feet above ground as they forage. When they swarm then the bees are least likely to sting. If they pile out of the hive then someone has probably being doing something he shouldn't have when people are around.
Incidentally I have done things to my garden hives which have been pretty intrusive and really p***** off the bees but the dog could watch me from less than 20 feet away and she didn't get bothered by bees.
Interesting what you say about hypersensitivity and your bee keepers...and a bit worrying. My wife, who is a nurse, always tells me to be careful about getting stung even if I find nettle stings more tiresome than bee stings. Her warning is because she feels that the more you get stung then the more likely you are to develop a hypersensitivity. I have come across bee keepers having a somewhat cavalier attitude to stings - I don't know whether it is macho or just pig headiness but i have seen the stings going in and them not being bothered and it happening repeatedly.
I will repeat my point. Apart from around the hive when they are defensive you are most likely to be accidentally stung when the bees are out foraging eg putting a hand on a bee. Bees dont seem to concentrate their activities around the hive but forage over a wide area. The most dangerous thing about bees in this country is the single sting and anaphylactic shock. Now to avoid that risk we would need to eliminate all bees from near human habitation. I always say to people that you have to regard the hive as like a large single organism. It is big and powerful and needs treating with respect. Just as a cow is capable of doing you a lot of harm so is a bee hive but that does not make either dangerous or a time bomb waiting to go off. People have been keeping bee hives in garden for centuries and that has been a lot of failed bombs.
My argument is ...keep things in perspective.

 

[Black Comb]

At Stoneleigh this year, really?

I never saw any Beehaus at Stoneleigh!

You were'nt looking. In the building where the beebreeders were located at the bottom of the stairs. You couldn't miss the sexy colours.

 

[Roy S]

Roy S if someone is putting a load of aggressive bees on the other side of the fence then they need locking up. If they did it on the other side of the fence to me then environmental health would find out cause they would be preventing me from enjoying my garden.

Geoff, Firstly let me say Yes wholeheartedly I agree, but already this season I've been out to new colonies that have had very gentle stock in them, however these stock have then swarmed and the resulting colony with the new mongrel queen at the helm have turned in to quite vicious nasty scary things. A lot of new beeks totally underestimate what they are taking on in earlier on in the year when they get a nice new nuc with maybe five frames of nice quiet gentle bees. Come this time of year when they get overwhelmed by sheer numbers in a hive its easy to miss a few queen cells never mind one tucked away in the corner of a frame!!.

You speak as if this is a rarity, yet you only have to scan the threads on here to get an idea of how many colonies this happens to each year, as I said I've had three so far this year and I'm sure experienced beeks in our branch have all got similar stories to tell, so yes I do have it in perspective, and yes I do know what I'm talking about. Poly Hive also tells people about the dangers in back yard beekeeping, and is often accused of being alarmist, I couldn't agree with him more on this issue.

My whole point is, people on the other side of a fence haven't got a clue what is happening on the beekeepers side until too late.

Its great saying don't tolerate bad tempered bees, but if some new beeks are feeling out of their depth already, feisty bees aren't going to encourage them to go through colonies to put matters right, and this is what seems to be happening. Some are burying their heads in the sand and just not going through the bees in the hope they will sort themselves out!

As for putting people off, and not encouraging people......yes and no....if it stops someone who is taking it up because its trendy then fine I have no problem with that, but anyone who personally knows me will know that I try to encourage ANYONE to keep bees that is in a SAFE position to do so.

This thread shows how unpredictable bees can be.....it is always wise to remember that.

Oh and again on the subject of dogs I admit I'm biased because my brother was badly injured (and scarred for life) at 3 years of age by a friends Corgi, that apparently she also trusted with her children's lives!!!

be safe everyone

Roy

 

[Poly Hive]

Unfortunately Geoff you are generalising from the particular.

No doubt your bees are the sweetest you can get. Fine.

Unfortunately and having handled thousands of colonies over the years I can safely say they are very much the EXCEPTION to the rule.

I post as much as I can in the general vein to which of course there are lucky souls like yourself with the exceptional tempered colony. However when discussing safety the general is the rule not the exception.

As for being on TV sorry but that is not a qualification. I cite myself in that regard...LOL

Bees sadly can and do kill. End of.

PH

 

[susbees]

Geoff, Firstly let me say Yes wholeheartedly I agree, but already this season I've been out to new colonies that have had very gentle stock in them, however these stock have then swarmed and the resulting colony with the new mongrel queen at the helm have turned in to quite vicious nasty scary things. A lot of new beeks totally underestimate what they are taking on in earlier on in the year when they get a nice new nuc with maybe five frames of nice quiet gentle bees. Come this time of year when they get overwhelmed by sheer numbers in a hive its easy to miss a few queen cells never mind one tucked away in the corner of a frame!!.

Quite so. The mechanisms of swarm control, watching for changes in temperament after requeening and what to do about it plus an awareness of what is likely to be going on in the hive from observing at the hive entrance and to mood with the weather, flows, and other factors HAS to be better taught.

 

[Poly Hive]

Ah well yes. Better taught?

These things can only be taught if the person is willing to attend a course. Yes that little issue.

I would think at a rough guess half the folks on here happily quizzing away have not been on a course.

I would run a poll but would honesty win through?

PH

 

[m100]

You were'nt looking. In the building where the beebreeders were located at the bottom of the stairs. You couldn't miss the sexy colours.

Wondering now if I missed out seeing a complete room / building, there is nothing about Omlet in the published programme at the bbka website, just three rooms

http://www.b-r-i-t-i-s-h-b-e-e.org.uk/files/convention10/bbka_spring_convention_programme-10.pdf

From the main entrance I turned left and went into one room with Swienty straight in front as I entered the room, also from the main entrance I went down the stairs and turned right into another room with Sherriff on the left KBS at 10 o'clock, and then at the far end of this room on the left hand side I went into the bit where Bees for Development and Thornes were.

I vaguely recall another room being used a few years back where BIBBA and Robin Dartington were, presumably that is where Omlet were?

 

[Poly Hive]

YUP

Dave was in that room doing his BIBBA bit. Alsso another very odd hive in there that split into goodness knows what all configurations. Seemed a bit HR to me so left.

PH

 

[m100]

So is that somewhere else at the bottom of the stairs, and if so where?

 

[Roy S]

It was in the building the Beefarmers and BIBBA were in they also had a nice brightly coloured beehaus out the front of the building.

As PH said though, seemed some very cuddly thinking going on on the omlet stand. They were talking to someone interested in keeping one in a terraced house back yard while I was there....and couldnt see any problems with it!

 

[kazmcc]

I know I am inexperienced, but now I know a bit more about bees, I would not be happy haven't neighbours with bees in there garden, in my area anyway. I live in the city, and the gardens are quite small. I would not be happy for my children to be playing unaware there is a colony of bees over the fence. I think allotments are the way to go if you are planning on keeping bees in an inner city setting. IMHO.

With regards to the courses, I think it should be illegal to keep bees without completing a course. They are not fluffy pets, they are dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. I am lucky, although inexperienced, I am having one to one tuition over the next year.....and probably after that as my mentor isn't the type to not keep coming back to see how things are going. He is also at the end of the phone if we will ever need him to come and sort something out for us that we aren't confident with. Not everyone starting bee keeping is as lucky as me.

 

[Black Comb]

Wondering now if I missed out seeing a complete room / building, there is nothing about Omlet in the published programme at the bbka website, just three rooms

http://www.b-r-i-t-i-s-h-b-e-e.org.uk/files/convention10/bbka_spring_convention_programme-10.pdf

From the main entrance I turned left and went into one room with Swienty straight in front as I entered the room, also from the main entrance I went down the stairs and turned right into another room with Sherriff on the left KBS at 10 o'clock, and then at the far end of this room on the left hand side I went into the bit where Bees for Development and Thornes were.

I vaguely recall another room being used a few years back where BIBBA and Robin Dartington were, presumably that is where Omlet were?

It was a separate building about 50 yards away. You came out of the main entrance and turned right. Robin Dartington and the Turkish multi box were on the upper floor.

 

[rae]

Roy S if someone is putting a load of aggressive bees on the other side of the fence then they need locking up. If they did it on the other side of the fence to me then environmental health would find out cause they would be preventing me from enjoying my garden.
Just because some bees are like that does not mean all bees are like that. Just because you treat all dogs as potential killers does not mean they are. You are just making a sweeping generalisation. The same as "all men are potential rapists", all strangers are potential paedaphiles". You misrepresent my argument. I have never said you should not take precautions. I would never leave a child on their own with my dog though I know my dog would willingly sacrifice her life to protect me if it were necessary.

Some bees are fine, some are not, but in inexperienced hands, they are dangerous. Many of the people beguiled by the Omlet propaganda would not know what an aggressive colony was - let alone what to do with it. Ditto with dogs and indeed with humans - treat them badly enough and both will turn.

With regards to the courses, I think it should be illegal to keep bees without completing a course.

Ah, so a piece of paper is the definition of a "good" beekeeper. My experience is that this doesn't always apply....

 

[m100]

It was a separate building about 50 yards away. You came out of the main entrance and turned right. Robin Dartington and the Turkish multi box were on the upper floor.

Missed it completely, must have walked past there half a dozen times!