Bees going crazy today

[pargyle]

What is 'the evolutionary lifecycle' of the honeybee? How long did honeybees take to evolve to their current evolutionary niche? 5 years? 5000? 50000? 5000000? I'd suggest it's actually nearer the latter.

Ahhh ... but you forget one thing ... evolution is dictated by the NEED to change ....for 50 million and 1992 years there was little need for European bees to evolve ... they were successful (although Acarine did British AMM a bit of damage in the early 1900's) but we, the beekeepers and man in general, introduced changes into their previous environment.

Small, rapidly breeding, organisms are remarkably quick to adapt to changing conditions and influences and this is why they are so successful.

If there is a need to adapt then species of this type will adapt ... and adapt quickly ... as, if they don't, they die out.

Have a google at some fruit fly experiments ... or even speciation. You will be surprised at how rapidly changes can happen. There is a core of scientists who believe that evolution (even of larger species) happens not over protracted periods of time but in short 'evolutionary bursts' when and if conditions dictate.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

British AMM a bit of damage in the early 1900's.

:-O A master of understatement!

<ADD> The genome is literally being resurrected </ADD>

 

[Putnamsmif]

I think there would be very few bees left if we hadn't treated for varroa and decided to wait for natural selection to allow the few, if any, bees that happened to be able to fight off the mite to proliferate. It's not a natural situation - varroa was spread unnaturally fast by beekeepers. It may have got here by itself eventually over a long period of time; a period of time that may have allowed apis mellifera to develop a strategy to combat it.

I think it's a bit of a dangerous situation to assume that the anecdotal evidence of some beekeepers seeing a reduction in varroa numbers is the first step to apis mellifera developing resistance. If you choose not to treat you are taking a risk that your bees may live to regret. I don't mean this as a criticism just my opinion.

 

[pargyle]

I think there would be very few bees left if we hadn't treated for varroa and decided to wait for natural selection to allow the few, if any, bees that happened to be able to fight off the mite to proliferate. It's not a natural situation - varroa was spread unnaturally fast by beekeepers. It may have got here by itself eventually over a long period of time; a period of time that may have allowed apis mellifera to develop a strategy to combat it.

I think it's a bit of a dangerous situation to assume that the anecdotal evidence of some beekeepers seeing a reduction in varroa numbers is the first step to apis mellifera developing resistance. If you choose not to treat you are taking a risk that your bees may live to regret. I don't mean this as a criticism just my opinion.

Oddly enough, the evidence for the spread of varroa in the early days is that it was NOT beekeepers who spread it but the ability of varroa to 'hop' from one colony to the next ... there were isolated outbreaks around the country that could have been attributed to wholesale colony movement but on the whole it appears that the mite was highly mobile. Even though the changes were rapid it is still possible for bees to develop - albeit with a lag.

I don't know whether 'natural selection' would have been better for the bees when varroa arrived ... I am pretty certain that the over treatment that certainly occurred was bad for them. Perhaps, in hindsight, there was more middle ground that could have been explored in terms of combating the onset of varroa - but hindsight is a 100% science and I accept that what was done at the time was very much the best that anyone could do.

I don't attribute this year's low varroa counts solely to bees evolving, indeed, iof there is the smallest glimmer of evolution I would be delighted... I really don't know why levels are so low in certain colonies, this year. There are many factors (including consistent and regular treatment) that could have led to this anomalous situation. What I am saying is that, if there are low varroa numbers in a colony and this is not a subjective but a measured assessment, there is an opportunity (for me at any rate) to leave them untreated and see how they get on.

Dangerous ? ... well, only time will tell - I hope I don't lose my bees but if I'm wrong - I may do.

 

[mbc]

I just think like anything else, it can be used but not every year... mixing up treatments is the best way to treat as no one strain of mite can get a resistnace foothold. As i said, next year if i choose to treat i'll use something else. I don't feel it is shrinking other people's guns at all... as long as it is used AS DIRECTED. Many people didnt follow the instructions for Bayvarol or Apistan and left them in the hive too long hence potency dwindled and resistance grew... that would be shrinking others 'guns'.

Unfortunately, although it appears to 'not bother' the bees and effectively kill mites, the active ingredient, fluvalinate, is wax soluble and once you have used apistan or bayvarol those combs in the hive at the time will forever more have a low dose of the fluvalinate impregnated into them. This is a downside.

 

[Putnamsmif]

I meant the initial jump from A. cetana to A. mellifera which is believed to have been caused by the movement of A. mellifera to areas where varroa existed already, but yes over here drifting, robbing etc was what caused the spread.

This is my first Winter and I treated both my hives but I'm still nervous about them both getting through!

 

[Lee Smeaton]

ok, here are my reasons for treating.

1. The colony was a cut-out rescue. As such I have no way of knowing if these are wild or a well kept colony that swarmed from someones apiary.
2. I am new to this and would rather err on the side of caution. I have tried to leave them to it as much as possible but have done quick inspections for signs of other ailments.
3. Despite having only one mite drop on my board after 3 days (doing a 7 day check) I am aware that my lack of experience may mean I have missed a couple and may even be doing it wrong (I dont think I am though).
4. I think many new enthusiasts think they can rewrite the book first time round - like many posters have stated. I would rather learn the generic method then tweak as my experience grows (who drives like they did on the day of their driving test?)
5. I front line & worm my dogs every couple of months - even though they dont have fleas or ticks - or worms.

so once the apiguard arrives it will be going in - fingers crossed

 

[Roola]

Unfortunately, although it appears to 'not bother' the bees and effectively kill mites, the active ingredient, fluvalinate, is wax soluble and once you have used apistan or bayvarol those combs in the hive at the time will forever more have a low dose of the fluvalinate impregnated into them. This is a downside.

noted.

 

[Hawklord]

I like to think of the varroa mite much the same as a flea or worm on a dog and so treat as a preventative rather than a cure. IMHO once a colony has mites it has a problem that will not disappear without human intervention. The longer it takes the beekeeper to intervene the worse the infestation will be, up to a point when no matter what the beek does he cannot save the colony.

 

[itma]

Unfortunately, although it appears to 'not bother' the bees and effectively kill mites, the active ingredient, fluvalinate, is wax soluble and once you have used apistan or bayvarol those combs in the hive at the time will forever more have a low dose of the fluvalinate impregnated into them. This is a downside.

Excellent description of why Apistan/Bayvarol should not be used as part of ANY routine treatment schedule.

The use of these products - even specifically as directed - does inevitably produce more-resistant mites. As "Managing Varroa" notes, failure to follow the instructions just "accelerates" the building of a resistant population.

As of now, no evidence has been found of the development of ANY resistance to Thymol and Oxalic and Formic acids.



Personally, I suspect that residues of the pyretherins (and Coumaphos, seemingly used by at least some large-scale bee farmers under the EU 'cascade' system) may be evident in commercial foundation (thereby spreading resistance, quite apart from anything else).

 

[BeeJayBee]

Just to say there's also Apivar (Amitraz) http://www.apivar.co.nz/ which can be bought from the Bee Vet in, I think, Devon http://www.bee-vet.co.uk/shop/view/index.aspx/product/amitraz-strips-20 or Bridge Vets in Dumfries http://www.bridgevets.com/bees

 

[Hawklord]

I am using Apistan this year and last used it in 2009. I think that using the same treatment every year will build some sorw of resistance and would probably not do the bees any good either. I agree with the build up of chemicals in the wax and therefore use wax from the brood frames for candles and only weigh in the wax from the supers.

 

[itma]

Just to say there's also Apivar (Amitraz) http://www.apivar.co.nz/ which can be bought from the Bee Vet in, I think, Devon http://www.bee-vet.co.uk/shop/view/index.aspx/product/amitraz-strips-20 or Bridge Vets in Dumfries http://www.bridgevets.com/bees

Just to say that Amitraz suffers from EXACTLY the same problems of residues and consequent growing resistance as Bayvarol and Apistan.

This isn't exactly new news. [1999] http://www.apidologie.org/index.php...cess=dkey&dkey=10.1051/apido:19990211&lang=de

Because it has not been greatly used in the UK, resistance is rare, but the more it is used, the more problem there will be from resistance.
Therefore not a standard weapon of choice for the thinking beek.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Yes, I know it does, but I don't know anybody who uses it year after year.

 

[rachann]

No ... but if you read up about it then it will give you a headache thinking about it ... Is it alive, is it dead ... no - it's just at the cusp. Better try quantum physics - it's more understandable !!

In quantum physics it could exist in all states

 

[itma]

In quantum physics it could exist in all states

Probably a federal offence.

 

[Lee Smeaton]

ok, 6 days into my treatment - Half my bees appear to have disappeared, I now only have bees on 6 frames on the BB and they all seem a bit sluggish - very worrying. Witnessed a few drones getting kicked out. No dead bees around on the floor around the hive... maybe they were all out to lunch.

Treatment finishes tomorrow, will started banging in feed - if necessary I will transfer to a nuc to overwinter if they dont fill the other frames with stores.

My Varroa drop has been very low.
in the week before treatment I got around 5 or 6 on the board. So far during treatment I have amassed 15-20 on the board (6 days)

Its a shame I cant pick them out - then i could give back all the pollen sat on the board!

 

[Lee Smeaton]

just an observation.....

lots of bees actively grooming each other on the landing board today - first time I have seen this

 

[pargyle]

just an observation.....

lots of bees actively grooming each other on the landing board today - first time I have seen this

I see this quite a lot with my bees, there's usually three or four bees just outside the entrance whose job is to clear up every last vestige of pollen that gets left on the landing area but they are not averse to actually cleaning pollen off incoming foragers as well. Thought it was normal ?

 

[Lee Smeaton]

it probably is usual, I am still new to all this caper