bee wind speed

[hedgerow pete]

I have a question , what is the max wind speed a bee can fly in.


the idea is that i am trying build a new and improved bee vac and could do with working out what is there maximum flight speed when in the vaccuum tube

 

[BKF Admin]

15mph > 20mph

 

[Apis]

Yup, the fascinating thing is that they can compute cross track error by using the 'Organ of Johnston'.

 

[Bcrazy]

Hi Apis
Could you expand a little more regarding the 'Organ of Johnston'?
Its my understanding that this organ which is in the pedicel of the antenna and its primary function is to detect vibrations, and nothing to do with cross tracking whatever that is.
But we are learning all the time also where did this information come from?
Regards;

 

[Apis]

Hi BCrazy,

sorry, I must have been fast asleep. My understanding is that the 'organ of Johnston' detects the deflection of the flagellum by using a ring of sensory cells connected to the intersegmental membrane 'above' the pedicel (Anatomy and dissection of the honeybee, H A Dade. pp85). The deflection is translated into wind speed and direction and thus can 'tell' the bee the speed and direction of the airflow over it's antenna. Cross referenced with their known track (Direction in relation to the sun), it gives the bee an understanding of the speed and direction of the air mass in which it flies. While not wishing to bore you on the beautiful art of navigation, cross track error is the effect of a wind or tide on a steered course. In other words, the bees detect the difference between the direction they point when they fly (heading) and their real movement across the earth (track). The difference between the two is known as cross track error.

It’s important to bees because it’s information that needs to be added to the algorithm that makes up the waggle dance. No use telling your mates to fly at such and such angle to the sun, if the 10 knot wind from their right sends ‘em two miles downwind from the target.

I’ll try to find a source for this use of the OoJ, I think I may need to look at waggle dance references rather than the anatomical ones I’ve tried so far.

Rgds

 

[Bcrazy]

Hi Apis,
Thank you for that lesson. I have the book The Anatomy and Dissection of the Honey Bee infront of me at page 85 only I cant find any reference to the Organ of Johnson on this page.

Page 85 is about Growth of larva and The endocrine glands.

The only mention of wind speed indicators is on page 34 first para, the antenna appear to act as air-speed and current indicators.
There is NO mention of the Organ of Johnson.

 

[Bcrazy]

I have just read the section on The Organ Of Johnson by Leslie Goodman in the book Form and Funtion of the Honey Bee. There is no mention of it detecting wind speed or selecting of cross tracking. It detects vibration.

So Apis where are you getting this miss information?

Regards;

 

[Apis]

Ah my friend. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
I'll try to find some time to provide a citation for that little tidbit.

H A Dade - revised edition 2009

 

[Bcrazy]

Here is a good article about the Organ of Johnson


http://neurophilosophy.wordpress.com/2007/02/21/feeling-the-vibes-of-the-waggle-dance/

Regards;

 

[Bcrazy]

Hi Apis
Just as well I am not holding my breath.

Regards;

 

[Apis]

Great article, I liked the one about frontal lobotomies as a way of reducing fractious and unsociable behavioural traits.

 

[Bcrazy]

Sorry mate don't understand what your on about.

 

[chaos2361]

click on the incredible case of phineas gage lol , now thats REALLY off topic!

 

[Hombre]

click on the incredible case of Phineas Gage lol , now thats REALLY off topic!

Mo, I think that you are being strung along by Apis for sport. The advanced subject matter being used to draw you in, banking on your enthusiasm to blind side you.
Chaos has jumped on the band wagon and cites a link that you unwittingly provided. The image which accompanies that link probably summing up the nature of the arguments presented by Apis.

Naughty boys.

I suspect that you were fighting a lost cause with good information.

 

[Bcrazy]

Thanks for the info Hombre,

If there picking on me then its OK as they are leaving others alone. Please note I have not responded to chaos2361 or to Apis.

Regards;

 

[Apis]

Whoa!

I meant no offence. Nothing more than a little banter.

I still stand by my original point about the dancing bee not giving a bearing to the 'target' but a corrected heading but it's of no consequence. I do remember reading it recently but I have no recollection as to where. I thought the idea interesting, that's why I lobbed it in the forum.

Life's way too short.

 

[buzz lightyear]

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a lobotomy. Sorry, couldn't resist it

 

[chaos2361]

same here guys, no offence meant or implied ,
deepest apologies

 

[Hombre]

Nothing wrong with a bit of banter; We all have a propensity for it from time to time; it lets out those wicked thoughts and alternative spin on subjects

We can't be too serious all the time .
I see that Admin has the collection of smilies rotating to give us a different daily selection.