bee keepers obsessed with feeding syrup

[drex]

At the end of last year when I sat the microscopy exam, the sample of bees I took for Nosema testing was heavily infected. So heavily in fact that the examiner asked if he could keep the slide for teaching purposes. He asked me if I was surprised at the result and I said I was, in that the colony was a strong thriving top bar colony. He felt they had a slim chance of overwintering unless they had had thymolated syrup, which luckily they had. Still a thriving colony and testing low for Nosema. I will be giving all my colonies some thymolated syrup this year, and leaving them a good amount of honey

 

[BeeJayBee]

I am keen to understand why so many beekeepers are obsessed with feeding simple sugar syrup to their bees through the winter months.
1. Why not simplybe less greedy and leave the stores

I don't think many 'thinking' beekeepers are obsessed with feeding syrup of any kind, and they aren't greedy either. They simply want to make sure their bees have enough stores to overwinter successfully, and feeding syrup is a good, clean, safe, way of making sure.

I will be giving all my colonies some thymolated syrup this year, and leaving them a good amount of honey

When I started beekeeping I decided to leave them enough of their own stores, and nothing else - because it's 'the natural way' to do things. I don't take honey from the brood box, but do make sure I give a good feed of thymolated syrup in autumn because it knocks down both nosema and, as far as I know, any acarine mites (and k-wing) that haven't been killed down by varroa treatment. Some sites claim thymol might also help rid a colony of latent chalkbrood, but I can't say whether it's true or not.

 

[beepig]

A great response, well done everyone, i touched a few nerves there i can see.
So in summary
1. Many see it as an economic practice
2. Others as a preventative measure in reducing Nosema
3. The majority give either fondant or liquid as a balanced decision. based on the Bees needs not there own

 

[user 6228]

No Derek, its a safe starting point for beginning beekeepers (like the OP), until they can get a feel for what their bees, hives, microclimate, etc might require.

20kg should be safe for everyone.

Not in the north America with winter top entrances and even thinner hive walls.

20kg is the number usually quoted for the standard British system of bee keeping in typical winter in wooden hives with a large to average colony as required to overwinter successfully in this system. Bult in to this number of 20kg is a safety margin.


But even begginners should be told reality will be different and that they should observe rather than rely on learnt by rote figures. They should be told the assumptions underlying the advice they are given

 

[itma]

I'm going to have to learn to address the global audience!

 

[rolande]

There was me being foolish enough to think that the real benefit of 'winter' stores was the role they play on a colony's build up in the spring.

 

[oliver90owner]

Not in the north America

Wow, don't forget those that have, in the past, found it more economical to not over-winter colonies but just to buy in package bees annually. Likely less the case these days, what with a greater demand due to CCD losses!

Rolande is closest to the truth. Properly organised preparations for the winter rest period should mean rapid expansion in spring, with maybe only extra feeding if the first flows are not early enough to otherwise avoid starvation at that time.

I have found that with 14 x 12s, I do not need to disturb between winter onset and late February. I simply leave them in peace.

The important things are healthy bees (wrt nosema and varroa, mainly), strong colonies, no 'vain' space, good insulation (with well-mated young queens being a further advantage). Unless there are exceptional conditions (poor strain choice or exceptional weather conditions per eg) there should be plenty of stores remaining for brood rearing in spring. Simple really.

 

[beeno]

Hi all,
Some beeks 'deliberately' feed syrup to dilute Ivy honey stores, so that they don't set hard in the comb. Also, some beeks don't remove excess syrup stores in the spring which IMHO results in a lot of early swarming and funny honey.

 

[drstitson]

the issue is ensuring the bees have adequate stores in the brood box (nat, 14x12 or B+1/2)
max stores; min space.
sure you can feed back some honey from supers but at the end of the day you need to fill the overwintering brood box.

and as stated sugar is cheaper than honey.

 

[Dishmop]

You should ensure that each colony has 20kg of stores before winter.

My hives didnt have anywhere near that amount when they went into winter.
At most it was 4 or 5 frames each (in a super box, and probably some in the brood box) and and there was still some left in April, because they eat very little over the winter period when they arent flying. They eat whats left for the energy when they start foraging again..and then replace it with new stuff.

Finman mentioned a figue of £20 per hive for winter a couple of weeks back but I assume he was talking about syrup and not honey, although he didnt clarify if he meant for UK hives or his hives.

 

[Ely]

I just leave the ivy nectar

 

[Madge]

I've just read through the whole thread and did not notice anybody mentioning trying to avoid isolation starvation as a reason for winter feeding - or doesn't candy (or fondant) on the top bars count as 'feeding'?

 

[Chris B]

Also, some beeks don't remove excess syrup stores in the spring which IMHO results in a lot of early swarming and funny honey.

I don't know how you managed to form this opinion Beeno, but the reality is that colonies with loads of stores left at spring supering time are likely to have some sort of problem, either a queen problem or else held back by nosema. Certainly they are in no state to be swarming. And the colonies that have burned through their stores are the ones that have brooded more or earlier, and these are the ones with the population to swarm early. Early swarming is usually due to late supering.

 

[beeno]

Hi ChrisB,
Empirical evidence of bees in my locale. No flies on my bees or anyone else's as far as I know. But a lot of the early swarming has not been successful here or on the forum. Mine were clean out of stores last spring and had excess this spring which I removed, but fed back later when they needed it. Some people use stores for the purpose of swarm prevention as bees tend to swarm on a flow. I have never had early swarming. Why should my bees be any different from anyone else's?

 

[beeno]

I've just read through the whole thread and did not notice anybody mentioning trying to avoid isolation starvation as a reason for winter feeding - or doesn't candy (or fondant) on the top bars count as 'feeding'?

You'r a brave girl!

 

[beepig]

A hornets nest un-covered i have

 

[BeeJayBee]

Mine were clean out of stores last spring and had excess this spring

Same with a lot of beekeepers - the winter and spring of each year were completely different.

 

[Pete D]

I too have found that the hives that are slow to spring build due to space or other restrictions are unlikely to swarm early as there are not enough of them and what there are tend to be old bees. A colony with 3 or 4 frames of brood and the rest bound up with stores just don't have the manpower to swarm in my experience, short though it is.

A rapidly expanding colony though with 7-9 frames of brood can easily catch you out. Many this year added 2 supers initially to accommodate all the bees they found during first inspections.

I run single std and 14x12 and don't really see a difference in swarming tendencies, either will swarm once the queen is laying enough to fill all the frames before they hatch and can be relaid.

As Rab said the 14 x12 don't really need any additional feed, fondant on standby just in case.
Local forage and the amount of hives will also determine what needs feeding. Within a mile of me there are over 60 hives (adding all the local beeks together) which is probably more than would of existed naturally so it stands to reason that at some stage they will need some feed if I remove they honey from all the supers.

 

[Finman]

I am keen to understand why so many beekeepers are obsessed with feeding simple sugar syrup to their bees through the winter months.
1. Why not simplybe less greedy and leave the stores

The most single thing is to extract honey and sell it and then feed 20 kg sugar for winter feed in September. To leave stores is too expencive beekeeping.

What heck is greedy... In Uk hobby beekeeper gets on average 15kg/hive. It is not even enough for wintering.
Sugar is as good wintering food as honey.

 

[Finman]

.
I feed hives in September, and the average 20 kg sugar is enough to May.
My bees live with sugar 9 months plus pollen frames are important.
Hives get average yield 60-80 kg yield/hive. ... No problem..

Ethic, no ethics... Nothing wrong in this. You must be greedy if hou want to be a good beekeeper. Do nothing beekeepers exist too much on globe.

Like a bootball players... Greedy makes more goals.