Bee farming advice wanted

[Poly Hive]

In two words.

Clipped Queens.

In three words.

Clipped marked queens.

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

Here in the States, I can't see the wisdom of buying equipment from the supply houses to build a commercial beekeeping business.

I agree, and do the same here, manufacture all the wooden boxes, roofs, floors, frames and beeswax foundation.

 

[seaknight]

I agree, and do the same here, manufacture all the wooden boxes, roofs, floors, frames and beeswax foundation.

Thanks for the advice - how do you cut the slot in the end panels, to take the sides?
I've been using a Dewalt DW720 radial arm saw but can't use a dado blade due to the short motor shaft and electronic brake (blame the EU for that!), the stored inertia would cause it to come loose, making it hazardous unless I drilled through the shaft and fitted a castellated nut with split pin.
I've found the radial arm is more accurate than a router table.
I'm considering getting a router plane to tidy up the slots by hand, although it'll be time consuming. There's plenty of CNC cut cedar timber available locally (they supply Maisemore).

 

[Hivemaker.]

Thanks for the advice - how do you cut the slot in the end panels, to take the sides?

The cutting is done by a dado in a cast iron machine and fed in via a power feed... or hand if only doing a few.
We also buy trees and sawmill all the timber here rather than buying ready sawn from timber merchants.

 

[seaknight]

The cutting is done by a dado in a cast iron machine and fed in via a power feed... or hand if only doing a few.
We also buy trees and sawmill all the timber here rather than buying ready sawn from timber merchants.

Right I see, many thanks.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Right I see, many thanks.

It would be useful for you if you could go and work for a season on a good beefarm.

 

[Into the lions den]

I agree, and do the same here, manufacture all the wooden boxes, roofs, floors, frames and beeswax foundation.

Fine, but only up to a point. Equipment from E. Europe, all made up and ready to go, is cheaper for me to buy than I can get the timber for in boards here. Never mind valuing the labour or even having the time to make my own.....

Also there was a slight gripe somewhere in the thread about members not sharing information......well many do, myself included, but there is only so many times you can give advice and have it contradicted by people who say they can do this or that cheaper......in ways I would just call pottering about or even scavenging.... before you feel a little ground down by it. A lot of good posters just get on with life rather than get 'into it' with two hive two season beginners who know better.

DN4? Why? DN5 gives less scraping and cleaning to do. Once you become a bee farmer something that takes even 30 sec per hive per visit adds up to a significant cost over the season, and if you don't cost it its still a hobby. No text book from the UK I have seen tells you another thing. Different spacing in the brood area and in the supers causes obstruction of the vertical airways inside the hive. Colonies with the same spacing all the way up tend to be easier to manage and swarm a little less readily than those in the configuration you describe. I have much in the way of heritage equipment that came down from my father and am reluctant to scrap it. but if starting the BS unit again I would be all Hoffman on the same spacing all the way up the hive.

For real flexibility and ability to run with most efficiency, one size units is best.......pick one box size and one frame type and stick to it. Then any box or any frame can do almost any job.

The bad news for the OP is that the expansion plans do not in any way, at this stage, constitute a commercial order. These are sad to say (from the point of view of getting a discount) small orders and a discount of any significance is unlikely. The vendors time is valuable too.

 

[seaknight]

Fine, but only up to a point. Equipment from E. Europe, all made up and ready to go, is cheaper for me to buy than I can get the timber for in boards here. Never mind valuing the labour or even having the time to make my own.....

Also there was a slight gripe somewhere in the thread about members not sharing information......well many do, myself included, but there is only so many times you can give advice and have it contradicted by people who say they can do this or that cheaper......in ways I would just call pottering about or even scavenging.... before you feel a little ground down by it. A lot of good posters just get on with life rather than get 'into it' with two hive two season beginners who know better.

DN4? Why? DN5 gives less scraping and cleaning to do. Once you become a bee farmer something that takes even 30 sec per hive per visit adds up to a significant cost over the season, and if you don't cost it its still a hobby. No text book from the UK I have seen tells you another thing. Different spacing in the brood area and in the supers causes obstruction of the vertical airways inside the hive. Colonies with the same spacing all the way up tend to be easier to manage and swarm a little less readily than those in the configuration you describe. I have much in the way of heritage equipment that came down from my father and am reluctant to scrap it. but if starting the BS unit again I would be all Hoffman on the same spacing all the way up the hive.

For real flexibility and ability to run with most efficiency, one size units is best.......pick one box size and one frame type and stick to it. Then any box or any frame can do almost any job.

The bad news for the OP is that the expansion plans do not in any way, at this stage, constitute a commercial order. These are sad to say (from the point of view of getting a discount) small orders and a discount of any significance is unlikely. The vendors time is valuable too.

Thanks, I'll give DN5 a try with one box size too.
Yes I've felt a bit worn down last season with my local club, some members are always supportive, although there's always someone who knows/claims to know better and it gets a bit much!

 

[For want of a better word]

Thanks, I'll give DN5 a try with one box size too.
Yes I've felt a bit worn down last season with my local club, some members are always supportive, although there's always someone who knows/claims to know better and it gets a bit much!

Paddle your own canoe... and do your own navigation!

Yeghes da

 

[Poly Hive]

From my (relatively limited) experience of running 60 to 80 then compatibility is crucial.

If I were starting from scratch I personally would pick Langstroth as from a World view point the chances of buying cheap are with that type whether pine cedar or Poly.

I would have all brood frames as Hoffman and all sups as Manley.

I would join the BFA as fast as poss and get some hands on BF experience or have a good BF as mentor (which I was lucky enough to have) That alone saved me a fortune.

KISS

PH

 

[Finman]

.
In my country professionals take cheap workers to bee farms from Eastern Europe.
You do only brain work.

May the Force of Brexit be with you.

 

[Jimmy]

I would have all brood frames as Hoffman and all sups as Manley.

Do you think all Manley supers (so you get ITLD's vertical draft corridors in the supers but no alignment with the Hoffman brood) better than Hoffman throughout?
Or is it for cut comb reasons?

(I've got mainly Hoffman brood and Manley supers. Using Swienty supers it saves having to mess about with spacers or castellations)

 

[seaknight]

Do you think all Manley supers (so you get ITLD's vertical draft corridors in the supers but no alignment with the Hoffman brood) better than Hoffman throughout?
Or is it for cut comb reasons?

(I've got mainly Hoffman brood and Manley supers. Using Swienty supers it saves having to mess about with spacers or castellations)

I'm sticking to all Manley in supers, since they are easier to uncap using an electric uncapping knife run along the wooden bars.

 

[Plenty of honey]

Fine, but only up to a point. Equipment from E. Europe, all made up and ready to go, is cheaper for me to buy than I can get the timber for in boards here. Never mind valuing the labour or even having the time to make my own.....

Also there was a slight gripe somewhere in the thread about members not sharing information......well many do, myself included, but there is only so many times you can give advice and have it contradicted by people who say they can do this or that cheaper......in ways I would just call pottering about or even scavenging.... before you feel a little ground down by it. A lot of good posters just get on with life rather than get 'into it' with two hive two season beginners who know better.

DN4? Why? DN5 gives less scraping and cleaning to do. Once you become a bee farmer something that takes even 30 sec per hive per visit adds up to a significant cost over the season, and if you don't cost it its still a hobby. No text book from the UK I have seen tells you another thing. Different spacing in the brood area and in the supers causes obstruction of the vertical airways inside the hive. Colonies with the same spacing all the way up tend to be easier to manage and swarm a little less readily than those in the configuration you describe. I have much in the way of heritage equipment that came down from my father and am reluctant to scrap it. but if starting the BS unit again I would be all Hoffman on the same spacing all the way up the hive.

For real flexibility and ability to run with most efficiency, one size units is best.......pick one box size and one frame type and stick to it. Then any box or any frame can do almost any job.

The bad news for the OP is that the expansion plans do not in any way, at this stage, constitute a commercial order. These are sad to say (from the point of view of getting a discount) small orders and a discount of any significance is unlikely. The vendors time is valuable too.

Our big beekeeping supplier, Le Rouge Apiculture can supply us with Dadant frames wired and( assembled + wired wrapped in packs or 20, wires all like piano wire)for 0.79 cents each including tax (vat ) we simply couldnt make them cheaper, also not including the labour this would take. These all come from eastern Europe.
As with ILTLD, i just cant get boards here. its a 200 mile trip and buying in bulk which makes buying ready made still attractive, although still not cheap.
I speak to Mark in Portugal "Madamazda" he can get wood riduculpusly cheap and can make a hive body for about 8 euros each. I can only dream of those prices. I think you just have to "Use what you have" ( like Mike says) and shop around. My beekeeping shop gave me trade price as i was buying 100 of everything. So the discount is good if your really buying in quantity.
I really wish i could make all my own gear.
I keep everything universal too. Stick to one type, dont be tempted with stuff that might just fit. it might cause you endless hassle in the future. I ve seen other beekeepers who might as well subscribe to shares in Duck tape as most of their supers are taped on to make them fit properly.
What I've learnt is that every beekeepers situation is unique due to their individual geography.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

"I'm planning to double from 4 colonies to 8 this year (or more if possible) and keep on doubling up, without purchasing additional bees!".

You can increase faster if you want - depends to an extent on how much honey you want whilst you are expanding.

 

[Millet]

"I'm planning to double from 4 colonies to 8 this year (or more if possible) and keep on doubling up, without purchasing additional bees!".

You can increase faster if you want - depends to an extent on how much honey you want whilst you are expanding.

I will be going commercial this year from one to two hives, i might even push the boat out and go for three, i will be a millionaire before i know it..

 

[wightbees]

3 colonies x 6 = 18 nucs x 180.=3240 in play money, wonder how the tax man sees it

 

[Poly Hive]

Going commercial you need books and a GOOD accountant. Bear in mind building up losses is handy for when that corner is turned and the cash pours in... well you can dream.

Anyone in the east mids I can recommend an excellent accountants.

I like the Manleys not so much for the ventilation aspect as never seemed to be a problem to me but for the versatility. Lots of wax, an asset to be harvested, fewer frames, asset, and less to handle come time, and of course excellent cut comb as on heather I had at least three or four frames per super on CC.

PH

 

[seaknight]

I've always kept an Excel spreadsheet of income and expenditure, still in the red by a long way! It is satisfying listing the sales and watching the debt getting smaller

 

[Millet]

I've always kept an Excel spreadsheet of income and expenditure, still in the red by a long way! It is satisfying listing the sales and watching the debt getting smaller

This time of the year i kill things, maybe you should do the same to get you out of the Red, saying that i am never out of the red..