Bee farming advice wanted

[Little John]

I've just taken an interest in this thread, and one request stood out as being an invitation for some honest feedback ...

"... it would be helpful if members shared advice and helped each other, instead of keeping their cards close to their chest!"

Ok - so this is my attempt at offering advice and help, bearing in mind that the opening question was: "How do commercial beekeepers prevent swarming?"

Now I'm not a commercial bee farmer, and I only run a relatively small number of colonies, but even I know the answer to this question. It is: "you keep on top of the job". What this means is that you make yourself available FULL-TIME for whenever the work demands it. The apiary becomes THE priority in your life - above everything else.

I have read about someone who needs to be away from the apiary from late April onwards, because they're a student at university, and someone who's going into full-time healthcare in 2018, and yet someone who is also planning on becoming a commercial bee farmer.

You asked for advice. My advice is to forget this ambition for now. By all means keep a few hives as a hobby, but don't even think about going commercial until you can give the required time necessary for the job.

The most sensible advice I've read thus far was, "It would be useful for you if you could go and work for a season on a good beefarm." I fully agree. It seems to me essential that you get a feel - as early as possible - for just how much relentless work is required commensurate with both the changing seasons and our unpredictable weather.

You have four colonies at the moment. That's fine - enjoy them. Because you CAN when you have four, or eight, or even twenty. But there comes a point when each colony loses it's uniqueness, and becomes 'just another hive in the row' requiring attention. The work stops being interesting by virtue of colony individuality, and becomes nothing less than a hard slog instead.

But - you have to find this out for yourself. Many years ago I kept four Border-Leicester sheep and had ambitious plans to expand. As luck would have it, a friend offered me the chance to lamb 300 'mules' (draft ewes) over in Ireland. I took one 12-hour shift, the farmer took the other. But - those ewes had been unwisely tupped by a Texel ram, and all the lambs had large heads, and so every birth was 'hands-on' - an ordeal indeed. I cannot express in words the relief I felt when that lambing shed was finally empty. Unbelievably hard graft, but it was the best experience I could possibly have had.

The type of bee chosen, the type and size of hive and frame and so on, all help - but ultimately it is your presence in the apiary which really counts.

Hope this helps, and doesn't cause offence ...
LJ

 

[Nige.Coll]

Bees make Bees that's the easy bit.

hive type makes a large difference if bulk buying I believe. Maybe cheaper when the crazies start talking lol.

You are entering into healthcare ? I hope that is not in the trenches or you won't have time or energy.
Will it have flexibility on shifts, some days one job has to bee sorted lol.

40 hives is a lot more work building up than I think you expect in all honesty.
See if you feel the same with 20+ for a bit and forgetting boxes at out apiaries or your goddam smoker left on a hive.
Extracting for a day etc. Yes just one day :-( sorry. Storing honey and warming it to jar it then storing the full jars hoping to sell it direct or selling in bulk for £2.5 ish a lb maybe ?
Do you have good forage for that many bees? how much other competition ?

Where is good enough to process honey and pass a future inspection?
That starts to chip away at the earnings you haven't made yet.

Then there is the Queen question buy or breed, more money or more time ? Some planning and a gamble on the weather if you already have good stock.

Making winter feed. What a ballache with a 25l burco boiler. Can't find ready made feed near the price sugar is + my time.

Keep your eye out for second hand equipment a lot start and give up in the first few years. Always expect it to be assembled wrong when buying.
I got a lot from a lovely gentleman who was retiring, he had top bee space nationals I have bottom. Can't have mixed stuff.
Only buy good condition stuff ofc.

I'm lucky I can work around my bees most of the time. I have a spare building I have put water and electricity into, sorted the floor, ceiling etc. Obtained stainless steel sink and work surfaces from a scrap yard and that has still cost me a fair amount to do and I did a lot myself.

Give it a go it's very rewarding but it will cost some money to build up even being frugal and it's hard work.

If you are starting a business don't be too honest or you'll be poor forever.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Have you tried ringing the bfa?
I have found them very welcoming and helpful.
After a concise chat I was given a lot of information and help.

Most local beefarmers will let you experience a day with them for a bit of free labour if you ask in the right way. You may not keep up or like it but try it and see.
They don't want to be another dead profession like so many others.

 

[Stiffy]

Going commercial you need books and a GOOD accountant. Bear in mind building up losses is handy for when that corner is turned and the cash pours in... well you can dream.

Anyone in the east mids I can recommend an excellent accountants.

I like the Manleys not so much for the ventilation aspect as never seemed to be a problem to me but for the versatility. Lots of wax, an asset to be harvested, fewer frames, asset, and less to handle come time, and of course excellent cut comb as on heather I had at least three or four frames per super on CC.

PH

Although our business is currently very small scale our accountant saves us their fees plus and worth the small amount we pay them. We also don't have to worry the tax man will come knocking either and can get on with expanding the business.
S

 

[Plenty of honey]

Although our business is currently very small scale our accountant saves us their fees plus and worth the small amount we pay them. We also don't have to worry the tax man will come knocking either and can get on with expanding the business.
S

Ive only just found a good accountant last year, its complicated over here, everyones situation is unique. Finding an accountant in my area who did Beekeeping was difficult, but now with his help, i feel i have direction and i always say with people like this, "youve got to pay a bit, to get a bit"
Nearly worth their weight in gold to be honest. He has already saved more than I've paid him. I am not looking over my shoulder in the worry, I've missed declaring something in the right boxes.

If you know your paperwork is ok, you can leave that stuff and concentrate with your bees. The part i much prefer!!

 

[RaGeBe]

I was at a talk by a bee-farmer a few months ago (660+ hives) and when asked what he would do differently if he started over, said he would use only Langstroth Brood Boxes and not bother with supers. It seems very logical now.

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[B+.]

use only Langstroth Brood Boxes and not bother with supers. It seems very logical now.

They're quite heavy though (30-35 Kg), If you're a commercial beekeeper lifting a stack of these all day long, you'd be well advised to have some sort of lifting gear.

 

[Poly Hive]

How to wreck your back in one easy lesson.

A good osteopath is an asset too and I am NOT joking.

PH

 

[BrianO]

I was at a talk by a bee-farmer a few months ago (660+ hives) and when asked what he would do differently if he started over, said he would use only Langstroth Brood Boxes and not bother with supers. It seems very logical now.

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Interesting, am at that stage myself about to launch into this full time from March on. Had settled on Langstroth and was erring towards Standardising all boxes to brood to use as supers also. Like the extra ( with the Brood box ) space it offers over and above standard National which I have been using for last few years.

Where was that Beefarmer based ?

 

[BrianO]

They're quite heavy though (30-35 Kg), If you're a commercial beekeeper lifting a stack of these all day long, you'd be well advised to have some sort of lifting gear.

Now I read further and learn more, that is also a serious consideration.

 

[RaGeBe]

I think he is based in The Fens, somewhere north of London I'm sure. I'll look up the email for the invite and see if it has his details.

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[RaGeBe]

How to wreck your back in one easy lesson.

A good osteopath is an asset too and I am NOT joking.

PH

That will surely depend on the person doing the lifting? I don't find lugging a cwt about too onerous but we're I of a more petite frame, it may well be I would suffer.



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[RaGeBe]

Now I read further and learn more, that is also a serious consideration.

It is. If you have a 75lb box, then it needs to be lifted carefully - in my experience - so for now me, it means ensuring I don't have to stretch to lift; or, if it's on a hive in an awkward position, enlist the help of an assistant.

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[RaGeBe]

Interesting, am at that stage myself about to launch into this full time from March on. Had settled on Langstroth and was erring towards Standardising all boxes to brood to use as supers also. Like the extra ( with the Brood box ) space it offers over and above standard National which I have been using for last few years.

Where was that Beefarmer based ?

Britishhoneyproducersltd.com

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[seaknight]

I've just taken an interest in this thread, and one request stood out as being an invitation for some honest feedback ...


Ok - so this is my attempt at offering advice and help, bearing in mind that the opening question was: "How do commercial beekeepers prevent swarming?"

Now I'm not a commercial bee farmer, and I only run a relatively small number of colonies, but even I know the answer to this question. It is: "you keep on top of the job". What this means is that you make yourself available FULL-TIME for whenever the work demands it. The apiary becomes THE priority in your life - above everything else.

I have read about someone who needs to be away from the apiary from late April onwards, because they're a student at university, and someone who's going into full-time healthcare in 2018, and yet someone who is also planning on becoming a commercial bee farmer.

You asked for advice. My advice is to forget this ambition for now. By all means keep a few hives as a hobby, but don't even think about going commercial until you can give the required time necessary for the job.

The most sensible advice I've read thus far was, "It would be useful for you if you could go and work for a season on a good beefarm." I fully agree. It seems to me essential that you get a feel - as early as possible - for just how much relentless work is required commensurate with both the changing seasons and our unpredictable weather.

You have four colonies at the moment. That's fine - enjoy them. Because you CAN when you have four, or eight, or even twenty. But there comes a point when each colony loses it's uniqueness, and becomes 'just another hive in the row' requiring attention. The work stops being interesting by virtue of colony individuality, and becomes nothing less than a hard slog instead.

But - you have to find this out for yourself. Many years ago I kept four Border-Leicester sheep and had ambitious plans to expand. As luck would have it, a friend offered me the chance to lamb 300 'mules' (draft ewes) over in Ireland. I took one 12-hour shift, the farmer took the other. But - those ewes had been unwisely tupped by a Texel ram, and all the lambs had large heads, and so every birth was 'hands-on' - an ordeal indeed. I cannot express in words the relief I felt when that lambing shed was finally empty. Unbelievably hard graft, but it was the best experience I could possibly have had.

The type of bee chosen, the type and size of hive and frame and so on, all help - but ultimately it is your presence in the apiary which really counts.

Hope this helps, and doesn't cause offence ...
LJ

Thanks, that's sound advice and a dose of common sense (something I need occasionally!).
I'll be starting work as a junior doctor from August 2018, ideally in South Wales so I'll be fitting beekeeping and other hobbies around shift work for a few years at least.
A few of my family friends are hill farmers, I'm amazed by their stories around lambing time and throughout the year, they make it sound so easy although they've done it for many years, with very long hours, I couldn't do it!
I'll carry on doubling up for this year at least, priority one is to stop losing honey and bees through swarms. Hope we have better weather this year, all the best for 2017 and thanks for the advice.

 

[seaknight]

It is. If you have a 75lb box, then it needs to be lifted carefully - in my experience - so for now me, it means ensuring I don't have to stretch to lift; or, if it's on a hive in an awkward position, enlist the help of an assistant.

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk

A relative is a retired coal merchant, he was used to moving 50kg sacks of coal on his back most of the working day, there is a knack to it so I'm told but there's only so much physiological reserve that the body has before parts start to wear out/break down.

 

[bjosephd]

I'm on Lang BBs only, no supers.

Brood area stays reasonably manageable, but honey filled boxes get chuffing heavy.

I far prefer langs to nationals, but The nationals have fantastic 'lifting bars' which would be far better than the narrow finger slots of the lang.

I'm wondering if additional lifting bars/struts can be added to the sides, but probably won't bother.

I am a fan of one size box for obvious management reasons, however am wondering if lang 8 frame size would have been more sensible, or lang super size only.

My current thought is potentially double full lang BB for brood and then super shallow supers for honey.

But meh, that's more ££ so will prob make do with what I got!


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[seaknight]

I'm on Lang BBs only, no supers.

Brood area stays reasonably manageable, but honey filled boxes get chuffing heavy.

I far prefer langs to nationals, but The nationals have fantastic 'lifting bars' which would be far better than the narrow finger slots of the lang.

I'm wondering if additional lifting bars/struts can be added to the sides, but probably won't bother.

I am a fan of one size box for obvious management reasons, however am wondering if lang 8 frame size would have been more sensible, or lang super size only.

My current thought is potentially double full lang BB for brood and then super shallow supers for honey.

But meh, that's more ££ so will prob make do with what I got!


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I had a look at past years' sales prices and could only see Langstroth Jumbo frames and hive parts available on sale in 2015, nothing much last year.
I'm sticking with Nationals for now with DN4 (double brood if I have to, not going to faff around with brood and a half any more) and Manley in supers.
Might consider 14 x 12, but need to check they can fit in the extractor.

 

[Nige.Coll]

As a junior doctor realistically you are not going to have time to be a bee farmer or even look after 40 hives.
Your shifts won't be flexible enough and you'll be knackered.

 

[B+.]

honey filled boxes get chuffing heavy.

You can say that again.
This is one of mine in mid-July (http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3744). It went on to make a total of 132Kg of honey for the year.
It isn't just lifting a 35Kg box you have to think of, its the height of the stack. This stack was taller than me.....lifting gear would be much safer!