Bee base. I can't believe it

[drex]

Just looking round bee base.
In "preparing colonies for winter", yes, the dreaded matchsticks are mentioned. It also suggests opening up alternate weeks to check for isolation starvation.
Each to their own, I suppose, but I doubt if many would do this, but an "official " site is suggesting it as good practice!

 

[Amari]

What we need is a massive controlled trial to test each and every theory expounded on beebase, this forum, textbooks etc. Thus the outcome of 100 colonies with matchsticks could be compared with 100 with no top ventilation. Similarly colonies protected with Kingspan v. no quilts or cladding. I will add this project to the many I have for when I win the lottery....
I sometimes wonder if any of our pet practices make the slightest difference to the end result.

 

[mbc]

There are elements of beebase which are a good resource for beekeepers, unfortunately other parts are embarrassing. As a mouthpiece for the nbu it is often taken as gospel by its readers, so imho it needs to be critically proofread from start to finish by some hard headed practical beekeepers otherwise it remains for all the world to see as an amateurish embarrassment to our nation's beekeepers.

 

[madasafish]

What we need is a massive controlled trial to test each and every theory expounded on beebase, this forum, textbooks etc. Thus the outcome of 100 colonies with matchsticks could be compared with 100 with no top ventilation. Similarly colonies protected with Kingspan v. no quilts or cladding. I will add this project to the many I have for when I win the lottery....
I sometimes wonder if any of our pet practices make the slightest difference to the end result.

Please let us know when you start funding the experiment. My begging letter will follow by registered post.

 

[Amari]

There are elements of beebase which are a good resource for beekeepers, unfortunately other parts are embarrassing. As a mouthpiece for the nbu it is often taken as gospel by its readers, so imho it needs to be critically proofread from start to finish by some hard headed practical beekeepers otherwise it remains for all the world to see as an amateurish embarrassment to our nation's beekeepers.

e.g. their recent confusion over what strength syrup to feed in the autumn.

 

[user 6228]

What we need is a massive controlled trial to test each and every theory expounded on beebase, this forum, textbooks etc. Thus the outcome of 100 colonies with matchsticks could be compared with 100 with no top ventilation. Similarly colonies protected with Kingspan v. no quilts or cladding. I will add this project to the many I have for when I win the lottery....
I sometimes wonder if any of our pet practices make the slightest difference to the end result.

There is first a need to understand what is being tested in a quantifiable manner.
i.e. measure the thermal properties of the boxes. Thats been done for some of the closed top variants. Work on the vented is in progress.
provisionally It looks like matchsticks on a uninsulated thorns national lose about 30% to 40% of the heat.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm sure we can find a few clowns on here prepared to poke around in their hives regardless of season or weather

 

[busybee53]

The seasonal bee inspector was particularly keen to stress to me that I should open the hive in winter each month to check that there was a frame of stores next to the brood nest. I was told to do this so that I could move a frame near the brood nest and so prevent starvation isolation. And yes she does do this with her own bees and pointed out that people do open hives in the cold, e.g when using oxalic and that bees survive this. She said it is more important to check when the weather is worse because that is when the bees could starve. I was told to chose the warmest part of the day and be as quick as possible. Without doing this they could starve which is worse than letting a little heat out.

For myself I am not as good a beekeeper as she is. I would probably have to take a few frames out to see where the nest began and then another few to find a decent frame of food. It might take more than a few minutes and I could do more harm than good. They are chock full of stores at the moment and have had well over two months to put the stores exactly where they want, plus there are a lot of bees in there so the cluster they make should be large.

Methinks I will keep an eye on them during the warmest days and if they fly then I will assume that they have been able to get to the right place in their hive before I consider opening up. There is also the option of putting fondant on top of the brood which is quicker than looking at frames.

 

[Suzi Q]

Busybee 53, I doubt any hives with top insulation,or in poly hives would succumb to isolation starvation, and so would not be necessary to swap frames mid winter. Would be interesting to know if your SBI insulates or not!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Or whether she has emerged from the dark ages or not.
My SBI insists that you should leave open holes in the crown board - doesn't mean he's right

 

[Moggs]

"We've always done it that way...."

 

[madasafish]

My Bee Inspector - Jo Schup - was very pleasant and refused to open any of my hives (check EFB) untii early spring.

Some (most I hope) are very sensible. The prior one here was.

I suspect a lot is to do with the local climate. Essex is soft suffern wusses ...

 

[sussexbaker]

At the LASI IPM workshop they advocated opening hives up regularly to check for brood before carrying out OA sublimation. This was questioned by members of the audience but they said they had no issue with doing it and it was routine for them. As madasafish says, all about local climates, their apiaries are South Coast.

 

[Amari]

There is first a need to understand what is being tested in a quantifiable manner.
i.e. measure the thermal properties of the boxes. Thats been done for some of the closed top variants. Work on the vented is in progress.
provisionally It looks like matchsticks on a uninsulated thorns national lose about 30% to 40% of the heat.

Yes, your researches and observations reported to the forum are always of great interest Derekm. However in post 2 above I was suggesting the ultimate outcome is bee survival and performance - which may or may not depend on the thermal properties of boxes etc etc. I was born a sceptic thus voiced my query that maybe our pet theories and practices are of little consequence - hence the bee inspector (post 8 above) who repeatedly rearranges her colony in mid winter might do as well as everyone else. A large scale controlled trial of each practice might answer

 

[oliver90owner]

If you fit matchsticks under the roof, they be will be so much colder that they will need more winter stores, so I would gess that starvation starvation is a far greater threat - along with them being clustered so much more tightly that they are less able to move. With an already huge draught through the hive, is removing the roof going to cool them that much more, anyway!

I much prefer to leave my bees the way they would want - with the crownboard joints completely propolised, so draught-proof. If I have need to open them, I strap them down to pull the joints tightly together. Just seems like common sense to me.

The few cases of isolation starvation I have seen over the years has occurred after spring brooding has commenced - a patch of severe weather preventing them from foraging or moving and with a relatively large amount of brood to service (compared to cluster size).

 

[REDWOOD]

Only once in winter did I lift the crown board and that was for oxalic treatment but won't be doing that this year. Yes my SBI suggested moving frames of stores closer to the cluster

 

[user 6228]

Yes, your researches and observations reported to the forum are always of great interest Derekm. However in post 2 above I was suggesting the ultimate outcome is bee survival and performance - which may or may not depend on the thermal properties of boxes etc etc. I was born a sceptic thus voiced my query that maybe our pet theories and practices are of little consequence - hence the bee inspector (post 8 above) who repeatedly rearranges her colony in mid winter might do as well as everyone else. A large scale controlled trial of each practice might answer

I understand that bee survival research is the end goal, but the bee academia isnt yet equiped to begin to understand the significance of your question.
Thermal properties are not the bee all and end all, but they are a very big factor. The problem is the complexity of the bee hive just as a thermal system is not being addressed by the research. This lack of knowledge in the thermal system, results in bad experimental design, which then give inconclusive or misleading results. (can give a list of papers)

What I can be certain of because I have personally conducted the experiments which have definitive statistical significance:

• If the western European honey bee evolved to inhabit tree cavities, then it evolved with very, very ,very low heat loss habitats compared to the wooden hives we give them today.
• adding matchsticks or any hole above the lowest level of bee habitation increases the heat loss further.

o

 

[Finman]

.
[*]adding matchsticks increases the heat loss further.


o

Bees fill those type gaps with propolis.

And if you have a mesh floor, do not keep open any upper holes.

 

[peteinwilts]

Busybee 53, I doubt any hives with top insulation,or in poly hives would succumb to isolation starvation, and so would not be necessary to swap frames mid winter. Would be interesting to know if your SBI insulates or not!

Hives with kingspan can and do suffer with isolation starvation.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Hives with kingspan can and do suffer with isolation starvation.

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