BDI Scheme B

[fiftyjon]

Does anyone know what this Scheme B is for people with 40 or more colonies?

 

[Chris B]

Hi,
yes it's just that you have to apply for it personally, your local BKA can't do it for you. They will insist on all your colonies being inspected by a bee inspector before being accepted, which is unfair if you've been in scheme A up to that point. The premiums will be high and even if you get foulbrood you will never make claims to the level of premiums you've put in, and they will bump up your premium severely the following year.
I think you'll find the scheme isn't really used.

 

[mbc]

Hi,
yes it's just that you have to apply for it personally, your local BKA can't do it for you. They will insist on all your colonies being inspected by a bee inspector before being accepted, which is unfair if you've been in scheme A up to that point. The premiums will be high and even if you get foulbrood you will never make claims to the level of premiums you've put in, and they will bump up your premium severely the following year.
I think you'll find the scheme isn't really used.

The whole concept of the BDI ( scheme a or b) is out of date IMO.
Since varroa, the relative balance of value of equipment and bees has changed, and since the BDI doesnt recompense the most valuable loss involved with disease( which has been very much the bees themselves since varroa, as there's no longer such a ready supply of free bees in the shape of plentiful swarms) the system has become virtually worthless, and many beekeepers resent the automatic syphoning off of a part of membership fees to associations going to fund the obsolete dinosaur which is the BDI.

 

[RogueDrone]

After having to call a claim on BDI for AFB this season I will not be renewing I will just register 3 Hives when joining Local BKA

BDI is not value for money.
3rd party insurance comes from BBKA / WBKA with membership

Colin

 

[VEG]

no hives will be covered if you have more than 3 in one apiary

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

no hives will be covered if you have more than 3 in one apiary

I think what rogue drone is trying to say that it's not worth paying the extra if you have more than three so you may as well be without altogether for what BDI is worth.

 

[fiftyjon]

Hi,
yes it's just that you have to apply for it personally, your local BKA can't do it for you. They will insist on all your colonies being inspected by a bee inspector before being accepted, which is unfair if you've been in scheme A up to that point. The premiums will be high and even if you get foulbrood you will never make claims to the level of premiums you've put in, and they will bump up your premium severely the following year.
I think you'll find the scheme isn't really used.

Thanks Chris,

I didn't think it would be much of an advantage, only more expense for nothing additional.

 

[fiftyjon]

I think what rogue drone is trying to say that it's not worth paying the extra if you have more than three so you may as well be without altogether for what BDI is worth.

If your uncovered colonies (or you have more colonies than you have paid for) are in the same apiary as covered colonies the policy is null and void for even the covered colonies.

An example would be that if your car is insured but the one in front of you isn't, this would make your policy void if you and they claimed in the same incident.

 

[Russel]

If your uncovered colonies (or you have more colonies than you have paid for) are in the same apiary as covered colonies the policy is null and void for even the covered colonies.

An example would be that if your car is insured but the one in front of you isn't, this would make your policy void if you and they claimed in the same incident.

How so?

With regards BDI, it's not just the total number of colonies that need to be declared and paid for but if you run one two queen colony this will count as 2 colonies, I would suspect mother/ daughter supersedure would count as one but then again? Swarms, nucs etc all count at the time of SBI's inspection, so either over insure or don't bother at all!

Russ

 

[For want of a better word]

And if you should need to do an AS, even if you intend to merge later, you could possibly exceed the colony limit!
To quote....
BDI is not value for money.
3rd party insurance comes from BBKA / WBKA, CBKA etc etc with membership

and product liability ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If your uncovered colonies (or you have more colonies than you have paid for) are in the same apiary as covered colonies the policy is null and void for even the covered colonies.

I know - what RD was saying is there's no point having BDI insurance at all so as 3 hive cover is included in the membership he declares only three knowing that the insurance won't cover any. rather than declare 12 and pay extra for insurance which in his opinion is worth b***ger all - quote: After having to call a claim on BDI for AFB this season I will not be renewing unquote

 

[susbees]

And if you should need to do an AS, even if you intend to merge later, you could possibly exceed the colony limit!
To quote....
BDI is not value for money.
3rd party insurance comes from BBKA / WBKA, CBKA etc etc with membership

and product liability ?

I understand where the posters are for coming from that would like to pay for just three. We had this exact discussion last year. Not decided about next Jan yet.

Public Liability comes with the BBKA element, covering pure hive products and swarm collections up to a point and having people on your apiary when you are running taster/classes etc, members or not.

 

[fiftyjon]

How so?

With regards BDI, it's not just the total number of colonies that need to be declared and paid for but if you run one two queen colony this will count as 2 colonies, I would suspect mother/ daughter supersedure would count as one but then again? Swarms, nucs etc all count at the time of SBI's inspection, so either over insure or don't bother at all!

Russ

If there are more than one person's colonies in an apiary, ie an association apiary and someone with a colony or two there and who also has more colonies than they declare/pay for, my understanding is then there will be no pay out if AFB/EFB is found in the apiary and the infected colonies are destroyed because at least one person is under-insured.

Maybe my example with the car insurance wasn't clear as an example of how the BDI works.

 

[beebreeder]

Hi,
yes it's just that you have to apply for it personally, your local BKA can't do it for you. They will insist on all your colonies being inspected by a bee inspector before being accepted, which is unfair if you've been in scheme A up to that point. The premiums will be high and even if you get foulbrood you will never make claims to the level of premiums you've put in, and they will bump up your premium severely the following year.
I think you'll find the scheme isn't really used.

Just work out what you would have been paying and put it in a savings account, the money is there when you want it and nobody can control what you do with it. I know people that have claimed and not got back even half of what the whole setup would have been worth, ie mid summer, double brood and five supers of honey, the payout did not even cover frames and foundation for the lot let alone lost crop and bees.

 

[Russel]

If there are more than one person's colonies in an apiary, ie an association apiary and someone with a colony or two there and who also has more colonies than they declare/pay for, my understanding is then there will be no pay out if AFB/EFB is found in the apiary and the infected colonies are destroyed because at least one person is under-insured.

Maybe my example with the car insurance wasn't clear as an example of how the BDI works.

That is correct, all colonies on a communal site must be covered regardless of who owns them. I assume a BKA site should/would have adequate cover; any other site you'd be wise to check with other bee keepers if it concerns you that much.
Remember all colonies managed must be covered, so if you have more than one site and if the SBI finds something he/she will probably want to inspect all your colonies and report back the numbers held?

 

[Tim1606]

If there are more than one person's colonies in an apiary, ie an association apiary and someone with a colony or two there and who also has more colonies than they declare/pay for, my understanding is then there will be no pay out if AFB/EFB is found in the apiary and the infected colonies are destroyed because at least one person is under-insured.

Maybe my example with the car insurance wasn't clear as an example of how the BDI works.

If the association is run properly then they should make sure that their members were covered for the amount of colonies that they have.

Under cover would to me be just as much fault of the association as the member. I thought it would be in their own interest to make sure all members stuck by the rules.

 

[Mike101]

Third party indemity is coverd by association membership. Frames/foundation (not bees) that are destroyed as a result of confirmed foulbrood are coverd by BDI. The experiences of many is that it is poor value for money and not worth the effort and in some cases aggro!

 

[fiftyjon]

If the association is run properly then they should make sure that their members were covered for the amount of colonies that they have.

Under cover would to me be just as much fault of the association as the member. I thought it would be in their own interest to make sure all members stuck by the rules.

 

[alanf]

If there are more than one person's colonies in an apiary, ie an association apiary and someone with a colony or two there and who also has more colonies than they declare/pay for, my understanding is then there will be no pay out if AFB/EFB is found in the apiary and the infected colonies are destroyed because at least one person is under-insured...

If that is the case it starts to push the scheme from a well meaning but inefficiently run scheme (see previous threads of payout vs income) into the realms of a PPI style scam. There are association apiaries that have hives from maybe a dozen or more members. It only takes one to underestimate the number of splits, nucs, swarms and other increases they have there or at any of the other sites they may use to make BDI insurance for the whole site invalid.

There are other association sites that are designated swarm/isolation apiaries, swarm collectors are depositing there for new members who won't have insurance yet - whole site uninsured. Hives are 'looked after' by other members because of illness or unforeseen absence of one sort or another. Theyend up being transferred at some undefined point without any planned moves or BDI insurance provision. Anybody leaving or giving up would be given notice to remove or sell hives, a period uncovered. Is anybody with uninsured hives on one site because of sharers also uninsured at other shared sites making that site uninsured? However rules of this type are applied it results in many shared sites that BDI premiums are being paid for, in practice, being virtually uninsurable under their policy.

From the personal point of view, what other insurance could be taken out in good faith but be completely invalidated by an oversight on some else's part? An oversight that you have absolutely no control over. The only way to avoid it would be for all members with a hive on a site to have rights to inspect and rigorously enforce an audit of all other members hives wherever they are, vertical splits and all. A massive undertaking that is way beyond the boundaries of either privacy or practicality. It only needs someone to pick up an unplanned swarm or be given an extra hive and that's your cover blown out of the water.

It could be worth associations looking at the whole issue of disease insurance on shared association apiaries. The BDI scheme seems to be completely unfit for purpose. Would any of the bee farmer policies be better suited to cover all association apiaries and include the premium in apiary site rent? It could at least be simply audited to cover the hives that can be counted on a fixed number of sites.

 

[fiftyjon]

If that is the case it starts to push the scheme from a well meaning but inefficiently run scheme (see previous threads of payout vs income) into the realms of a PPI style scam. There are association apiaries that have hives from maybe a dozen or more members. It only takes one to underestimate the number of splits, nucs, swarms and other increases they have there or at any of the other sites they may use to make BDI insurance for the whole site invalid.

There are other association sites that are designated swarm/isolation apiaries, swarm collectors are depositing there for new members who won't have insurance yet - whole site uninsured. Hives are 'looked after' by other members because of illness or unforeseen absence of one sort or another. Theyend up being transferred at some undefined point without any planned moves or BDI insurance provision. Anybody leaving or giving up would be given notice to remove or sell hives, a period uncovered. Is anybody with uninsured hives on one site because of sharers also uninsured at other shared sites making that site uninsured? However rules of this type are applied it results in many shared sites that BDI premiums are being paid for, in practice, being virtually uninsurable under their policy.

From the personal point of view, what other insurance could be taken out in good faith but be completely invalidated by an oversight on some else's part? An oversight that you have absolutely no control over. The only way to avoid it would be for all members with a hive on a site to have rights to inspect and rigorously enforce an audit of all other members hives wherever they are, vertical splits and all. A massive undertaking that is way beyond the boundaries of either privacy or practicality. It only needs someone to pick up an unplanned swarm or be given an extra hive and that's your cover blown out of the water.....

Yes Alan, that is as I see it.

My example with the car insurance was used to try to explain (probably badly) that situation.

The policy doesn't really seem worth the paper it's written on as others have indicated.