Autumn feeding

[WoodenBeam]

We’ve always got a super on. Either above during the season or below over winter. So much depends on your own circumstances. We use MAQS which works for me & the way I deal with autumn treating & feeding - yes 98% of our colonies are fed irrespective of circumstance. The only odd one not fed maybe something that I’ve put part capped supers under or colonies coming back from Borage with surplus stores in the brood box or super.
If yours are building into the eke it may suggest they need more room……..

 

[Erichalfbee]

So do you folks automatically feed... irrespective of the size of the colony, number of frames...etc?

I don't. Each colony gets what it needs

 

[Do224]

I’ve been trickle feeding with 1:1 for the past couple of weeks (each hive has probably had 1.5 litres in that time) in the hope that it will encourage my queens to lay more. My three colonies all originated as late swarms and are only just filling their brood boxes.

Stores are quite light but I’m holding off hitting them with the invert syrup for now in order to leave the queens plenty space. The plan is to continue trickling 1:1 for the next 10 days or so and then pile in the invert.

Does this sound like a good plan??

I’ve also vaped them three times at five day intervals with the fourth vape due on Saturday. Fingers crossed I’ve covered everything.

 

[Garry R]

I’ve been trickle feeding with 1:1 for the past couple of weeks (each hive has probably had 1.5 litres in that time) in the hope that it will encourage my queens to lay more. My three colonies all originated as late swarms and are only just filling their brood boxes.

Stores are quite light but I’m holding off hitting them with the invert syrup for now in order to leave the queens plenty space. The plan is to continue trickling 1:1 for the next 10 days or so and then pile in the invert.

Does this sound like a good plan??

I’ve also vaped them three times at five day intervals with the fourth vape due on Saturday. Fingers crossed I’ve covered everything.

1.5l doesn't seem a lot to me even at 1:1. Advice I got is to feed as soon as you have any honey off until they don't take it any longer. The weather is to turn cold in the next few days so get them fed in my opinion.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Does this sound like a good plan??

How much pollen do they have?

 

[Do224]

How much pollen do they have?

There was quite a bit on the outer frames at last inspection about a week ago and looks to be quite a bit being taken in

 

[Do224]

1.5l doesn't seem a lot to me even at 1:1. Advice I got is to feed as soon as you have any honey off until they don't take it any longer. The weather is to turn cold in the next few days so get them fed in my opinion.

There were no supers as the colonies were all swarms and have never made it beyond the bb.

I’ve been tempted to as you say feed 2:1 until they don’t take it anymore…but I’m confused…don’t I need to wait a bit longer before I do to ensure there are plenty winter bees??

 

[elainemary]

For the first time in my 6 seasons of beekeeping it doesn't look that I'll need to feed my colonies. Went round most this week and all have between 40 - 45lb stores (18kg+). Even double nucs have 35-40lb stores in the upper box full and capped and the small brood nest below.

Putting it down to the combination of a good season and the fact that I moved them to dummied down double brood (7-8 frames + 7-8 frames below) in early summer, so they backfilled the brood nest with lots of their own stores. I've doubled my honey harvest too, so it's not that I've lost out. Feel happy the bees have their own stores and don't need any top ups of syrup from me. I've always left them a super but a few have so much in the brood boxes they don't really need it...maybe being a larger colony means they will need more winter stores, so I'm erring on the side of caution

They are all are crammed with bees and the queens are going off lay now, with mainly emerging brood on just 2-4 frames. I added a couple of empty frames to one colony yesterday as it was so rammed with stores that I was concerned how would the bees 'rest' in cells. They know what they are doing I suppose...but the extra comb will give space for a few extra winter bees if they choose to produce more.

 

[elainemary]

There were no supers as the colonies were all swarms and have never made it beyond the bb.

I’ve been tempted to as you say feed 2:1 until they don’t take it anymore…but I’m confused…don’t I need to wait a bit longer before I do to ensure there are plenty winter bees??

Hi I seem to remember you asked the same question last season??
Think I replied that I always do any top up feeding last week in september and they take it down in a week, then the job's done. It's about assessing through inspections what they need and just adding that amount. Then learning from the experience through taking records and hefting through the winter and checking what's left in the spring so you know what to do next year...

 

[Do224]

Hi I seem to remember you asked the same question last season??
Think I replied that I always do any top up feeding last week in september and they take it down in a week, then the job's done. It's about assessing through inspections what they need and just adding that amount. Then learning from the experience through taking records and hefting through the winter and checking what's left in the spring so you know what to do next year...

I likely did ask the same question last year (my first year) but all my bees perished in the winter so I’m very very eager to get it right this year…

 

[blackcloud]

Its a dilemma for sure but
I find overfeeding and have them short of space in spring is more of an issue than worrying about underfeeding.
Yes you can take out a frame but you then have it unused and at risk for six months.
With a perspex crownboard and monitoring their progress outwards by looking at the fallen cappings pattern underneath you can guage if they are likely to need supplement and add some fondant if required.
Removing fondant is easy if things go back the other way when the flow starts again.

 

[elainemary]

I likely did ask the same question last year (my first year) but all my bees perished in the winter so I’m very very eager to get it right this year…

Did you come to conclusion why they all perished? Keep asking questions, it’s the best way to get advice and also important to reflect and try to understand their behaviour; in time it becomes more intuitive

 

[Do224]

Did you come to conclusion why they all perished? Keep asking questions, it’s the best way to get advice and also important to reflect and try to understand their behaviour; in time it becomes more intuitive

I’m not sure what the cause was. They seemed to have plenty stores. I used OA strips to treat for varroa last year and I think they’re rubbish. Also they were smallish colonies in full size brood boxes.

This year I’ve used OA vape for varroa and am insulating the hives as best I can

 

[B_north]

I’m not sure what the cause was. They seemed to have plenty stores. I used OA strips to treat for varroa last year and I think they’re rubbish. Also they were smallish colonies in full size brood boxes.

So then the stores and your feeding was probably not the cause of the bees demise unless you noticed that there were no stores left when they perished.

So on to the next possible cause.

I believe the OA strips alone will not be enough to control the varroa sufficiently. I don't think they were ever intended to be a stand alone treatment.

 

[Do224]

So then the stores and your feeding was probably not the cause of the bees demise unless you noticed that there were no stores left when they perished.

Yes I agree…lots of stores left when they perished so I don’t think they starved.

Last year I didn’t feed until into October and then gave them all they would take. I did plan to do the same this year but am getting nervous with many suggesting I should already be feeding

 

[bingevader]

There would be an argument that said that as long as you hadn't taken any honey from the late swarms, they should be able to collect enough stores to see themselves through the winter? If not, you are probably just propping up a weak colony anyway.

Like elainemary, I just leave a super of honey on the established colonies and then, although I check them in the winter, I don't need to worry about feeding them now (and very rarely do then!).
But, if you are dependent on your bees for a living and have taken honey, you do need to ensure they have enough stores for winter.

 

[madasafish]

I am in the North Staffs Moorlands 500 feet above sealevel, in a frost pocket. We have lots of HB so in a good autumn have lots of pollen coming in and some nectar.
Final extraction 2nd week August then treat (I rotate so changes), nadir one super and weigh end September. Target weights for Lang jumbo plus super and floor minus roof =>32KG. Over 40KG is too much Supers half that. Equivalent Nationals >25KG.

National Nucs still being trickle fed 1:1 to get Q to lay (it works) coming to end. And then lump of fondant checked monthly. Fondant placed on top bars over a layer of plastic so minimal disturbance when changing it. Ditto mini mating nucs # overwintered.

Everything poly or insulated.- or both for min nucs.

I weigh using digital luggage scales on side at a time and add to get total
# Mini nucs - all doubled up: either properly using Apidea/Kieler super or gaffer tape. Must be checked monthly. Fed on top bars as nucs: bees will not enter feeders as too cold.

National and Lang nucs MUST be checked monthly for stores. Quick whip off roof/insulation and look through plastic to see fondant. Bees undisturbed. 1 minute job.

Been doing this as a result of trial and error as a guide to mini nucs/nuc overwintering seems absent.

 

[drex]

Also they were smallish colonies in full size brood boxes.

That's probably your answer. Better to adjust the space to suit size of colony or combine before winter preps. Have combined a few of mine now to make winter survival more likely. I can always split next year

 

[Erichalfbee]

I used OA strips to treat for varroa last year and I think they’re rubbish.

I think they help reduce numbers but they are not licensed and need supplementary treatment

 

[Do224]

How much pollen do they have?

I just had a look and there seems to be lots of pollen…more than I’ve seen all summer. Perhaps two or even three full frames altogether. Sound about right?

They’ve got about 4 frames with brood, a couple of which have large slabs of it. Also quite a bit of nectar although not a huge amount of it is capped.

Weather is pretty good and the bees are busy. Thinking I’ll try and sit on my hands for another week and then pile in the invert syrup…