Assessing performance

[Beefriendly]

You know, I tried to give a simple explanation so that beginners would get an appreciation of assessment. It's getting so that we can't pass on even simple things anymore.

b+ that was not a simple explanation of an assessment. You and Derek need to sit down sometime and explain in layman's terms what you think you are doing.
If you can't explain it to a 10 year old then you don't understand it yourself.
Sometimes the things you understand and take for granted need to spelled out in simpler terms for those who don't.
I would think most people turned off at

DE-6-1-0456-2017 98.25
DE-6-1-0512-2017 133.65
DE-6-1-0535-2017 98.50
DE-6-1-0872-2017 116.10
DE-6-1-0884-2017 33.55
DE-6-1-1022-2017 93.75

Which would you prioritize? .

Then you need to read further to find which of those DE numbers where related or not.
Simple...... I think not.
Some times I think you and Derek are oblivious to real life.
Perhaps stuck up ones own donkey (or related animal) is a good analogy.

 

[beebopper]

Well what I have learnt is that I don't have enough colonies to do any sensible breeding.

 

[DanBee]

You know, I tried to give a simple explanation so that beginners would get an appreciation of assessment. It's getting so that we can't pass on even simple things anymore.

Actually I rather enjoyed the post, having just dipped in to catch up on a rainy day.

b+ that was not a simple explanation of an assessment. ...

It really didn't take much effort to follow the queen numbers quoted and see the point B+ was making. I'm not sure why you're being so derogatory about it.

 

[B+.]

Actually I rather enjoyed the post, having just dipped in to catch up on a rainy day.



It really didn't take much effort to follow the queen numbers quoted and see the point B+ was making. I'm not sure why you're being so derogatory about it.

Thanks Dan.

For anyone who didn't understand, the queens are numbered according to the following:
International ISO country code (DE=Germany, NL=Netherlands, etc)
"Association" number
Breeder number
Queen number in the breeders stockbook
Year of queens birth

I suppose I could have simplified the explanation by substituting letters for the queen number, but, this is how it's really done and I don't think it's too hard to understand. I'm sure I'd have been criticised if I had over-simplified it anyway

 

[For want of a better word]

Hoppy they are just a faster DNA sequencer. Understanding what the DNA sequences do and how the genes they code for interact into behavioral traits is the complex slow bit.

Agree the developing technology is leaps and bounds ahead of the Sanger techniques that were available to me when I was at the MBA researching into E.Hux virus.
Linking honey bee traits to a specific DNA sequence is going to be an arduous task, a lot of field work.... and a lot of computer power, however I am certain it will happen soon and that it will influence bee husbandry and queen rearing for future generations.

Some of the stuff and nonsense issuing forth about best queen lines, selection for traits etc etc seems to me to be little further on than the box of sweet corn combs sent out with the basic genetics science kit in the 70s by the Open University!

 

[B+.]

Well what I have learnt is that I don't have enough colonies to do any sensible breeding.

You can if you apply the same methodology and work with others.

Do you think a Prof collects the data when he/she is producing a paper? No. He/she has a number of students to do it. They all work to the same routine though.

It's quite possible to pool your results with others and achieve the same goal.

 

[For want of a better word]

You can if you apply the same methodology and work with others.

Do you think a Prof collects the data when he/she is producing a paper? No. He/she has a number of students to do it. They all work to the same routine though.

It's quite possible to pool your results with others and achieve the same goal.

Very true!

Problem is when the playingfield is uneven and you have no idea where the goal posts are!

(AND Not helped when the goal posts get moved... like some ignoramus or deliberately evil beekeeper brings an unwanted genotype into your off shore isolated mating area.. or other)

 

[Eyeman]

Well what I have learnt is that I don't have enough colonies to do any sensible breeding.

You are definitely correct if as your logo says your hive type and numbers is zero!

 

[B+.]

(AND Not helped when the goal posts get moved... like some ignoramus or deliberately evil beekeeper brings an unwanted genotype into your off shore isolated mating area.. or other)

....or...perhaps you needed to include that in your risk assessment and plan for it? When I worked in programme management, we had a saying: "failing to plan is planning to fail". I've heard my wife use it in teaching too when she's teaching students to prepare for exams.

Off shore? What off shore mating stations do you use?

 

[beebopper]

You are definitely correct if as your logo says your hive type and numbers is zero!

I have updated.

 

[beebopper]

You can if you apply the same methodology and work with others.

Do you think a Prof collects the data when he/she is producing a paper? No. He/she has a number of students to do it. They all work to the same routine though.

It's quite possible to pool your results with others and achieve the same goal.

No thanks too much hassle and I am not going to do somebodies donkey work for free.

 

[B+.]

No thanks too much hassle and I am not going to do somebodies donkey work for free.

Strange. I don't view it that way. We share our data and everyone wins.

 

[beebopper]

Strange. I don't view it that way. We share our data and everyone wins.

Most people think I am strange.

 

[Finman]

Most people think I am strange.

4 hives and you do not breed queens. That is strange.

 

[For want of a better word]

....or...perhaps you needed to include that in your risk assessment and plan for it? When I worked in programme management, we had a saying: "failing to plan is planning to fail". I've heard my wife use it in teaching too when she's teaching students to prepare for exams.

Off shore? What off shore mating stations do you use?

Not me... unless Cornwall can be called off shore... Scillies perhaps?

Reading an item about the problems that the Danes have had with perfecting and maintaining isolation.

Yeghes da

 

[B+.]

Most people think I am strange.

I met a guy today who thought beekeeping was a strange passtime. What's wrong with him?

 

[Beefriendly]

however I am certain it will happen soon and that it will influence bee husbandry and queen rearing for future generations.

Some Canadian research has been linking specific proteins associated to certain traits like hygienic/honey gathering etc. It looks very promising in that you choose your breeder queens from a family line of sisters knowing which ones will have these traits before you assess them for it. Speeds things up a bit.

 

[B+.]

Some of the stuff and nonsense issuing forth about best queen lines, selection for traits etc etc seems to me to be little further on than the box of sweet corn combs sent out with the basic genetics science kit in the 70s by the Open University!

It's easy to talk about stuff in a negative way. However, it works and, until you can demonstrate something better, this is the way it's done.
There are projects that I'm involved in that look at the DNA in drone larvae as a pre-selector for VSH, but, that's a little off topic for this thread. In any case, it will still need to be tested in practice. There is too much talk about selecting queens for propagation using proxies instead of doing the actual testing. There is only one way to know if the trait is actually expressed, and, that's to test it.

 

[For want of a better word]

There is only one way to know if the trait is actually expressed, and, that's to test it
Would be nice to know if the trait is expressed as a DNA sequence... then that trait could be looked for in the breeder queen and or drone.... some way off perhaps.....

Yeghes da

 

[beebopper]

Some Canadian research has been linking specific proteins associated to certain traits like hygienic/honey gathering etc. It looks very promising in that you choose your breeder queens from a family line of sisters knowing which ones will have these traits before you assess them for it. Speeds things up a bit.

Could I have a link/copy of that - sounds very interesting.