Asian Hornets

[jenkinsbrynmair]

At what point do you think it will be needed

not now

 

[North End Bees]

I am not advocating its use in the UK at present because the conditions as I understand them do not currently justify use. Monitor and report to the secreteriat/NBU as currently legally required to do.

I have exhausted what I can meaningfully contribute to this thread. I wish all of you well and may the shores of the UK continue to be unwelcoming to velutina.

You've exhausted what you can meaningfully contribute after having stirred up more than a few members who've bookmarked your recipe and are just itching for that first velutina to land in their traps.

It's only halfway through this thread that you started adding disclaimers to your posts about the custard treatment being hypothetical till approved. After many many posts on various threads extolling it as the holy grail.

It's quite frightening reading the posts of a few members who have rallied to the cause, not least several who appeared previously quite rational people. Trump at the Capitol comes to mind.

 

[The Poot]

Do we have time to deal with AH?
The hornet was in France for years before they realised it was there.

How did they realise it was there, years before they realised it was there?

 

[Erichalfbee]

How did they realise it was there, years before they realised it was there?

Number of nests found I think then extrapolated a timeline. But it’s probably heresay

 

[The Poot]

Number of nests found I think then extrapolated a timeline.

Ah, yes that makes sense. Thanks.

 

[Erichalfbee]

There are pieces on the internet describing hormone lures
https://www.vespavelutina.co.uk/ves...reating-a-new-weapon-against-the-asian-hornet

 

[madasafish]

Anyone suggesting appealing to MPs to change the laws regarding Asian Hornets has an optimistic view AND forgets there is an Election due in the next 12 months. Which means NOTHING new will be considered for at least the next two years - or more..
Given the challenges faced by whichever takes power in 2025, I would go further and suggest nothing will be achieved in the following five years. An ongoing series of financial crises are likely to occupy everyone (Think the 1970s on steroids)

 

[North End Bees]

There are pieces on the internet describing hormone lures

I wonder how successful that strategy was.

I would have thought that the number of drones who were disorientated wouldn't have made a dent in the number needed for a queen to be successfully mated.

Asian Hornets mate with fewer drones than do honey bees and we know that the vast majority of honey bee drones never get a chance.

 

[fian]

I wonder how successful that strategy was.

I would have thought that the number of drones who were disorientated wouldn't have made a dent in the number needed for a queen to be successfully mated.

Asian Hornets mate with fewer drones than do honey bees and we know that the vast majority of honey bee drones never get a chance.

Not to water down my compatriot's study, but it is highly probable that the velutinas fertilize within the nest itself, maintaining a high degree of inbreeding, especially in adverse ecological niches as a genetic survival strategy. More in the long term and with established ecotypes, it is more likely that inbreeding will be reduced, increasing genetic variability

 

[The Poot]

Anyone suggesting appealing to MPs to change the laws regarding Asian Hornets has an optimistic view AND forgets there is an Election due in the next 12 months. Which means NOTHING new will be considered for at least the next two years - or more..
Given the challenges faced by whichever takes power in 2025, I would go further and suggest nothing will be achieved in the following five years. An ongoing series of financial crises are likely to occupy everyone (Think the 1970s on steroids)

I think you are right there. The dollar is going out of favour as the reserve currency, America is a basket case and we are , as ever, following in their wake. (Or should that read woke?)

 

[ericbeaumont]

bored to death

Short attention span?

 

[Karol]

Lines 22 and 23 of the list of biocides. Fipronil with 2 uses, one as an insecticide and the other as a wood preservative.

Correct

This means that any non-veterinary use of fipronil will be considered a biocide and therefore BPR is applicable.

Correct

You can bend the law but without specific legislation there is no possibility of using fipronil custard as an authorized biocide.

Prohibitions 1 and 2 of the BPR apply but the product in question is already on the market as an AVM-GSL. There are no prohibitions (for the private individual) stopping its use save prohibition 5 which states that the use has to be minimal and ecologically considerate.

If the possibility existed, why don't the NBU or DEFRA apply it?

The NBU are destroying nests using track and trace and have not at present been overwhelmed. Track and trace is preferred presently because it is more definitive.

I am still of the opinion that all things being equal velutina will find it difficult to establish itself in the UK. What troubles me is the influence of trap manufacturers from mainland Europe pushing their traps into the UK which could create conditions for velutina to become established in the UK by virtue of the destructive effects of spring trapping on indigenous vespine species.

 

[Karol]

At what point do you think it will be needed?
Bearing in mind that France/Portugal have been battling Vv for years now and it still doesn't seem to be the best (or least bad) solution.

France and Portugal have been using traps and baiting. They have not been using vectors to deliver precision poisoning. That is precisely the point.

 

[fian]

That in the case of custard it would be a biocidal product produced on site and therefore the producer must have an authorization. Bleach is also toxic but I doubt that a person would not commit a crime if they decided to use it in order to poison a wild animal for defending their garden.
That the velutina is considered an invasive exotic animal does not mean that any action aimed at its eradication is permitted, which is why countries develop protocols or regulations for action.

 

[fian]

Anyone suggesting appealing to MPs to change the laws regarding Asian Hornets has an optimistic view AND forgets there is an Election due in the next 12 months. Which means NOTHING new will be considered for at least the next two years - or more..
Given the challenges faced by whichever takes power in 2025, I would go further and suggest nothing will be achieved in the following five years. An ongoing series of financial crises are likely to occupy everyone (Think the 1970s on steroids)

Quite the opposite, now that the parliamentarians are approaching in the eaves (those with the most possibilities of change) they will be eager to take actions that allow them to hold their position. Taking into account that the polls give favorability to Labor with a large margin, it is very likely that between 100-180 ladies and gentlemen find themselves in this situation.
In a number large enough to push for velutina-specific legislation that strengthens the vote of all beekeeping associations and members in the United Kingdom. And although no one wants an accidental death due to anaphylaxis due to a vv bite, what would happen if one occurred in May and parliamentarians were caught without a solution with an nbu/defra in the sensationalist eaves?

 

[Erichalfbee]

That in the case of custard it would be a biocidal product produced on site and therefore the producer must have an authorization

Is there not one already in Portugal?
Didn't Mark say in his post that you can buy fipronil custard in a syringe

 

[fian]

Is there not one already in Portugal?
Didn't Mark say in his post that you can buy fipronil custard in a syringe

I don't know what there is or is produced in Portugal (I also don't know if it is punctual or supported by a pharmaceutical company), I was referring to what should happen in the United Kingdom, which is the object of my discussion with Karol.
Internet searches regarding fipronil custard as a removal method are fruitless.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I don't know what there is or is produced in Portugal (I also don't know if it is punctual or supported by a pharmaceutical company), I was referring to what should happen in the United Kingdom, which is the object of my discussion with Karol.
Internet searches regarding fipronil custard as a removal method are fruitless.

Ah yes, we are an Island removed from the rest of Europe

 

[Karol]

That in the case of custard it would be a biocidal product produced on site and therefore the producer must have an authorization.

So back that up and specify which of the prohibitions in the BPRs apply to this effect?

Bleach is also toxic but I doubt that a person would not commit a crime if they decided to use it in order to poison a wild animal for defending their garden.
That the velutina is considered an invasive exotic animal does not mean that any action aimed at its eradication is permitted, which is why countries develop protocols or regulations for action.

Some countries clearly more slowly than others. We know that little has been done in mainland Europe legislatively speaking. So there needs to be a fall back position and arguments to force the legislative response. One thing legislators hate is gaps in legislation that create unregulated activities.

 

[North End Bees]

France and Portugal have been using traps and baiting. They have not been using vectors to deliver precision poisoning. That is precisely the point.

They are as capable of using it as you are. They haven't because the environmental fall out is unmanageable.