AS into 14 x 12 from National

[beekake]

My colonies (3) are on OSR at the moment and going great. They've been expanding at a good rate for the last 4 weeks, had built some play cups at the last inspection, and at the next inspection I'm expecting to make the decision to AS one or two of them. My grand plan for this year was to move them up to 14 x 12 brood boxes, but I'm now having last minute nerves because I will be moving them into these enormous boxes with nothing but foundation to work with. I have a couple of national broods with plenty of drawn comb as an alternative.

When I move the queen and her retinue into the new, empty brood box, should I also give them a couple of drawn and empty national frames to make them feel at home? I don't mind if they build comb at the bottom. I'm just worried that, faced with too much foundation and feeling a bit swarmy, they might just head off into the sunset rather than make the effort.

Any advice gratefully received!

 

[Bob Bee]

I've done this, no problem. The extra drawn frame was somewhere for the queen carry on laying and they drew the 14x12 comb fine with a little encouragement from some 1-1 as there were no supers on when it happened.

 

[Beeline]

I ASd mine from National Deep to 14 x 12 last weekend, using Demaree method. With a relatively good flow on the go and a super of stores above them over the excluder, they seem well settled into their new large home. With a OSR flow on, IMHO now is the best time to move across to the increased size and you get them through an AS as well. In my case I also got the bonus of two swarm cells (orig reason for AS) which I intend putting in two nucs.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You could do a modified Bailey change - just slap the 14x12 brood with foundation on top of the standard brood (NO QX between the two, let them draw comb and eventually HM will move up to the new brood box, you can then put a QX between the old box and the 14x12 until all the brood has emerged then take it away.
If they're on OSR at the moment the time is ideal, it wont take them long to fire through that - might even save you doing an AS (well, for a while anyway) if you act quick, they'll probably love the extra space.
Alternatively an A/S into a 14x12 with the queen left on one drawn frame, no probs (OSR will help with comb building again) the one shallower frame would act the same as a drone culling super frame in a standard national deep.

 

[susbees]

I ASd mine from National Deep to 14 x 12 last weekend,

National Deep is 14x12?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

National Deep is 14x12?

No i think the nomenclature now is shallow=super deep=standard brood jumbo=14x12

 

[susbees]

No i think the nomenclature now is shallow=super deep=standard brood jumbo=14x12

....that's what trap-out planning does to the brain!

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

....that's what trap-out planning does to the brain!

You'd hate to be at work in the boat with JBM.

"Soundings, No 2!"
"Well, Cap'n, it's super in the harbour, standard right here, down to 14 x 12 in a couple of leagues."

Reminds me of Eccles in the Goons:
"Land ahead Cap'n!!!"
Ccccrrrrrrunch!
"I wish I'd said that sooner!"



Dusty.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You'd hate to be at work in the boat with JBM.

"Soundings, No 2!"
"Well, Cap'n, it's super in the harbour, standard right here, down to 14 x 12 in a couple of leagues."

Dusty.

Yes, but never venture anywhere where it's brood and a half - and over the atlantic shelf? well that's Finman territory
'goodness commander, the bottoms fallen right away, you need at least six boxes and douple brood of cable to anchor here'

 

[Beeline]

National Deep is 14x12?[/QUOTE

Not in my books. 14 x 12 is also known as Extra Deep but not a Deep.
Where is RAB when you need him.

 

[pargyle]

....that's what trap-out planning does to the brain!

I got so confused about frame size that I gave in and went for top bars so I built a TBH, then I decided that I would be better off with frames but wanted the bees to build their own comb so I went to Dave Cushman's size and got even more confused reading his pages on frame sizes - so I took the TBH apart and remade it to fit the frame sizes on DC's site but then I realised my hive had not left enough bee space for frames so I built another hive to fit some frames I had been given and then I bought a pack of 14 x 12 top frame sections from TH's, to make life easier (I made the rest of the frames) only to discover that the frames I had been given were not the same width as the 14 x 12 bars I had bought so I took the hive apart and remade it to fit the 14 x 12 I had bought. Is it any wonder that Newbies are confused ? And that's before you even start on ventilation and AS !!

 

[galileo]

(cut framing confusion) Is it any wonder that Newbies are confused ? And that's before you even start on ventilation and AS !!

Don't even go there mate - it's not a pretty sight!

 

[oliver90owner]

Where is RAB when you need him.

Here I am.

No i think the nomenclature now is shallow=super deep=standard brood jumbo=14x12 (my underlining)

Always has been, hasn't it? Just that some can't get their heads round it. Robin Dartington was one..... long deep hive should have been an extra deep long hive

Back to The Dusty thread on proppa know men clature?

RAB

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No i think the nomenclature now is shallow=super deep=standard brood jumbo=14x12 (my underlining)

Always has been, hasn't it?

yes - but slipped into valleys dialect: you obviously don't understand South Walian punctuation is it

 

[susbees]

That's it then. I blame Robin

 

[pargyle]

Where is RAB when you need him.

Here I am.

No i think the nomenclature now is shallow=super deep=standard brood jumbo=14x12 (my underlining)

Always has been, hasn't it? Just that some can't get their heads round it. Robin Dartington was one..... long deep hive should have been an extra deep long hive

Back to The Dusty thread on proppa know men clature?

RAB

I think that's where my long hive may have ended up - by accident - so do I have an Extra Deep Not Quite A Long Hive or an Accidental Dartington without Supers ? And does anybody care ? The weathers really cold outside today !

 

[susbees]

Right, after a quick fish around it seems that none of the main suppliers of equipment are daft enough to use anything other than 14x12 to describe the deeper than standard National box and the term National Deep is, sensibly, only used for frames/foundation and not as a descriptor for the Modified National brood box/body/chamber.

Henceforth I will continue to use the terms National (for Modified too-small-for-most-colonies except some native-type or sick colonies brood boxes/bodies/chambers) and 14x12 for the useful if you have long arms and it doesn't get too hot box equivalent to brood-and-a-half keeping the word Deep to describe foundation/frames only.

Here endeth