artificial swarming

[frenchbees]

I have just bought a new hive, have re-read my notes from last years course on artificial swarming to create a new colony and done some reading on the internet.
I now have information overload and am now totally unsure which is the best method.
Any recommendations please.
I am a bit limited for space as my apiary is enclosed by a 2 X 3 metre fence to keep the sheep away.

 

[margob99]

If you've never done it before, this is what to do:

- Watch someone else do it first.

 

[rae]

This is what we did, it worked, but quite possibly there are other methods.

1) Before the swarming season, set up another (empty) hive a few feet from the current hive. (We didn't do this, and it would have been less stressful if we had! It needs a brood box full of foundation, less one frame.

2) Spot queen cells in the current hive, preferably before they swarm!

3) The objective is now to make the queen think she has swarmed. So you find the queen, and move her on the frame she is on to the brood box of the spare hive. Move supers as well. So you end up with a queen + frame of bees/brood + an optional super in the "new" hive position, and a load of bees + brood in the old hive position.

4) Now swap the hives over. What will happen is that the queen will end up with all of the flying bees, because she is in the "old" hive position. Every flying bee that leaves either hive will return to the hive with the queen in it. This is good, because a real swarm is a "queen + flying bees" - and you have created that.

5) The "old" brood box in the "new position" will be depleted of flying bees. As it has most of the brood frames, it will have sufficient stores to survive quite happily while it matures more flying bees and hatches the queen out from the swarm cells.

6) If the "old" brood box is a big colony, then you may want to move it again in a weeks time. Move it to the other side of the original hive location. Again, this is to deplete the flying bees. Say it was on the right of the original location, and then you move it to the left. All of the flying bees will return to their location on the right, fail to find a hive,
and go to the nearest hive - which is the hive with the original queen in it. By depleting the flying bees further, you are reducing the risks of casts being thrown.

6) After my experiences of last year, I would be inclined to reduce the number of swarm cells in the old brood, or split it into a couple of nucs. We did all of the above, and they still chucked casts out.

7) Depending on the amount of food with the original queen, you may want to add syrup. We moved a nearly full super with her, so didn't bother. If you don't have this, and foraging suddenly turns bad, then they could get hungry.

 

[thedeaddiplomat]

Some on this forum will be sniffy about me drawing attention to so thin a volume as 'Bees at the Bottom of the Garden'. But if you can get hold of a copy, it has the easiest advice on AS that I have so far seen - helpd no end by some clear diagrams!

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

I have just bought a new hive, have re-read my notes from last years course on artificial swarming to create a new colony and done some reading on the internet.
I now have information overload and am now totally unsure which is the best method.
Any recommendations please.
I am a bit limited for space as my apiary is enclosed by a 2 X 3 metre fence to keep the sheep away.

I was in just the same position as you last year, including the sheep fence. Whatever method you choose, try and work it so you have space either side of your original hive to allow you to do step 6) in rae's instructions - its not critical as I got away with it last year, but I understand I was lucky they didnt swarm again.

The new colony will need plenty of feeding if they are building from foundation.

Most important thing is to be clear in your mind the steps you are going to take. Its not as hard as it sounds (apart possible from finding the queen, second pair of eyes can help) as long as you have all the kit in the right place, including written instructions as an aide memoire.

 

[MJBee]

The only thing I would add to Rae's post is:- Make sure the frame you transfer to the "new brood box" has the queen but NO queen cells.

 

[RoofTops]

I endorse the DD's suggestion. BATBOTG has the best description and drawings of an AS I've seen. Don't be too shy about having the book open in the apiary when you do it the first time for real. I did.

 

[oliver90owner]

Learning X,Y,Z steps is fine if that is your forte.

But I find remembering why each step is done, makes the whole process clear and transparent. At every stage ask yourself 'why did I do that and why that particular way?' There will be a very relevant reason for each step and you will remember far more easily than simply trying to memorise a list of instructions. And.... those reasons (for and against) are there for other manipulations you might wish to consider.

Item 5) of Rae's description may be erroneous. You have only left a large number of brood, and possibly eggs, for those bees to service. They start with no foragers and the new foragers are depleted again, just before the new queen emerges (to reduce the flying bees, to avoid a secondary swarm). A large amount of brood can soon run short of stores and may need feeding.

Swarming mode is often precipitated by a reduced flow, so beware of those stores levels.

Regards, RAB

 

[Haughton Honey]

Go North young man (or woman), go North.......and Demaree rather than Pagden.

http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/demaree.html

 

[MuswellMetro]

If you are on a restricted site you can modifiy the AS to something like the snellgrove method, i have used it on a urban restricted site, but now on a more open site I will be using standard AS this year

1) prepare a brood box minus one frame, plus one new floor and two crown boards

2) take the roof and any supers off the old hive and place to the side of the stand ( i put supers in the up turned roof cover with old crown board)

3) take the old brood and the floor off stand and place a ,new crown, old brood and old floor on top of the roof and crown & supers

4) place the new brood minus frame and the new floor on the old stand with entrance of the floor facing as the old brood

5) inspect the old brood box and place the queen and her frame into the new box

6), second new crown board on with blocked feed hole on the new brood box & old Queen

7) old floor and old brood box on top of the new brood box BUT 90 degrees to old entrance direction

8) QE, supers, crown board on

9) Roof back on

10) take one crown board home


ok not as good as a AS but it works in a small confined space, to balance the boxes with bees if required you can just turn all through 90 so the old brood faces the direction as it originally did, but you need two people to lift and turn

inspection is a bit of a pain, but then so it bee-keeping in a small space,

 

[Silly Bee]

I think this is pretty well the methods outlined.


http://www.cornwallhoney.co.uk/beepedia/artificial.htm


But with simple diagrams.

 

[Rosti]

I think Rae's post and the supporting observations gives a good concise summary.

One thing to add (learn't from personal cock-up - sorry I mean valuable practical experience)

Before moving the frame with the queen on between hives secure her using a crown of Th0rnes or similar for transit, once in the 'swarm' hive release her again - and for good measure you could QE below as well as above the 'swarm' brood box for a week or so. R

 

[Black Comb]

Some books say leave 2 queen cells in the parent (old) colony as insurance and the bees will sort it out. I did this last year and they swarmed when the first queen emerged.

 

[oliver90owner]

they swarmed when the first queen emerged.

Surprising, if there were very few flying bees. Even so, little would be lost if the odd misfire happens. You presumaby moved the 'emerging queen' hive at the appropriate time? The risk should be low, but that is the choice - a failed queen cell or a very small cast (not many flying bees to go with her).

Making sure you only leave an uncapped queen cell is some insurance, if only leaving the one cell to mature.

Regards, RAB

 

[Hivemaker.]

Go North young man (or woman), go North.......and Demaree rather than Pagden.

http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/demaree.html

Or south WPC,it's a system i like to use, for several reasons.

 

[Haughton Honey]

Or south WPC,it's a system i like to use, for several reasons.

Apologies Pete......I should have said....'go up'

 

[nonstandard]

I think this is pretty well the methods outlined.


http://www.cornwallhoney.co.uk/beepedia/artificial.htm


But with simple diagrams.

Very similar to 'Bees at the bottom of the garden' which i concur is a great beginners book.

I had to do a quick AS last year when my 1 month old swarm on 14x12 ran out of room and started producing queen cells.

Don't build it up it's not a biggie, it takes about 5 mins and as long as you ensure the queen is on the old site with a frame of stores, a frame with brood and eggs and you are certain there are NO queen cells you should be OK.

I left 2 queen cells in the other hive and had no problems, I made sure that the ones I left were the ones that I had seen some nice fat larvae in a couple of hours before when I inspected them. It took me 2 hours to revise the procedure and knock up the equipment I needed

 

[northernsoul]

There are lots of different methods some so complicated they make my head hurt. Choose one you understand and one you will remember when your heart in thumping when you're carrying a box of bees (possibly in the wind and rain and when they're very cross)

After you've done that you also need to remember that despite the claims no method appears to be foolproof with your biggest problem being a queen cell that doesn't hatch or more than one cell that continually casts.

Good luck

 

[Finman]

Some books say leave 2 queen cells in the parent (old) colony as insurance and the bees will sort it out. I did this last year and they swarmed when the first queen emerged.

Sometimes it happens but very seldom.

Last summer I made lots artifical flying swarms to stop swarming fever.

If I put a new hive with drawn combs +queen, the hives continued swarming fever= rearing queen cells. When I put foundations to them, all stopped swarming.

Make them feel that they have swarmed.

 

[frenchbees]

Thanks for all the info.
Rae's method is the one I thought seemed simplest except for the need to find the Queen. (I didn't manage to spot her last year, she isn't marked as the bees swarmed soon after they arrived)
What is the general opinion of moving the original hive 1 1/2 metres to one side, setting up the new brood box with frames and leaving for 1/2 an hour so the flying bees leave the old hive for the new? Less bees when looking for the Queen.
The new hive is new, so no smell of bees, will they move without the Queen or just become totally confused?
Is 1 1/2 metres far enough? I could make a temporary enclosure with electric fence if that would ensure a better chance of sucess.