Artificial swarm without finding the Queen?

[Panteg]

Is it possible to do an artificial swarm without finding the Q first? She is still in there somewhere! There are lots of new eggs, there are also lots of charged but as yet uncapped Q cells. I have been through the very large brood and half twice in two days and can't find her. I am sure she will be off very soon. Any suggestions gratefully received!

 

[snelgrove]

Is it possible to do an artificial swarm without finding the Q first? She is still in there somewhere! There are lots of new eggs, there are also lots of charged but as yet uncapped Q cells. I have been through the very large brood and half twice in two days and can't find her. I am sure she will be off very soon. Any suggestions gratefully received!

First of all if I couldn't find the queen after going through the colony twice, I would have at least shaken through the colony and destroyed all cells. Thus preventing a swarm for a week or so. I wouldn't recommend doing AS without finding the queen . Swarm control involves finding the queen not easy in a strong stock, that's why I mark and clip all queens.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Lift the brood box to one side.
In its place put a new box with frames of foundation.
Take three or four out from the middle.
Going back to the original brood box take each frame out and shake all the bees into the new box. Repeat with all frames and add the bees clinging onto the sides and floor.
Take a frame of brood, NO QCs, from the parent hive and put it in the middle of the new box. Make up with the frames of foundation you took out.
Put an excluder on top. Replace the old box on top. (you have seriously disturbed the nest so it might be an idea to put an excluder under the queen as well for a few days.
Leave for a few hours for the nurse bees to cover the brood then take the box away.
Treat as a normal AS.

The bees hate this and there will be thousands airborne.
A kinder way is to do Wally Shaw's modified Snelgrove II where you don't have to find the queen with the first manoeuvre. You do 9/10 days later but she will be among a much diminished workforce.

 

[dn170221]

I did what Erichalfbee suggests last year and it worked fine for me!

 

[bpmurray]

I did what Erichalfbee suggests last year and it worked fine for me!

I just did it for two hives 10 days ago. Both queens are laying like crazy now, I suppose a bit like after a shook swarm, and I'm expecting the queens to emerge in the other halves over the next day or so. It's easy and works well.

 

[user 6228]

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=11738&d=1431192246

 

[Swinton apiaries]

Shaker box would find your queen

 

[alldigging]

[PDF]FAQ 18 NQ Swarm Control FV
http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/downloadDocument.cfm?id=205

 

[Panteg]

Completed Stage One

Thanks all. I've gone with Alldigging and the National Bee Unit method. The NBU should know what it's about (!) and it did seem simpler than the other methods. Completed stage one this morning. I have to go back in 7 days for stage two and then I'll let you know how it's gone.