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abb 

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hi every body ,my question is if the bees use the appiguard sach before the two weeks period do you still wait 2 weeks before you give them the second treatment? regards to all.:banghead:
 

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Why do we use a second dose ?
How long does larva take to hatch from when its capped ?
 

MuswellMetro 

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Why do we use a second dose ?
How long does larva take to hatch from when its capped ?
hmmmm , VERY GOOD COMMENT, if it kills every thing not in brood then by day 14 the capped cycle should have have emmiited all it varroa

so over to the forum to comment
 

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The big knock down is with the initial placement of the Apiguard. I have known people use a lesser dosage than specified and applied it three times, so that over the period they get the same amount of Apiguard , but three bites at the cherry instead of two.

I appreciate that where the individual trays are used, as opposed to a measured dollop from the big £75 bucket, then this is a little impractical.

The workers are in sealed cells for 13 days and drones for 14 days. The varroa that managed to get into sealed drone cells and sealed immediately prior to the first application of Apiguard will just be emerging on day 14. Anything not in sealed cells on day 1 is considered to be dead and anything emerging shortly after application of the Apiguard on day 1 is also likely to be dead, but the efficacy of the product by day 12 may not be as effective as the initial application. The second dose largely cleans up, but there is a possibility that varroa that emerge on say day 12 may survive to get back into drone or other cells before the second application, which is why, I believe, the efficacy is said to be around the 85% mark.

I stand to be corrected, and accept that my argument may be specious. If that is indeed the case then I hang my head in shame and will be the wiser for being pulled up now, rather than later.

PS WaxManSmokerBoy sends his regards, the wx was just fine.
 

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Sounds like a perfect explanation - thanks.

So I guess although these two doses won't kill everything (the small percentage that emerge from cells just before dose 2 and dive into a cell about to be capped before the dose arrives - get away with it), we shouldn't be expecting 100% kill anyway. Drifting of remaining drones, workers turning up from collapsing colonies, simple bee to bee transfer on flowers or at water sources will give you a few mites back anyway.

There's no way around the constant battle to monitor and managed (if necessary).

FG
 

Skyhook 

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hi every body ,my question is if the bees use the appiguard sach before the two weeks period do you still wait 2 weeks before you give them the second treatment? regards to all.:banghead:
The original question seems to have got a bit lost here- the instructions say check at day 10- if the 1st tray is empty then replace: if not, leave to day 14 and replace then, whether it's empty or not.

Picking up the other thread- it obviously does take the full time, witness some people on here now into their third tray. As I understand it, the fumigating effect has to be assisted by the bees accidentally spreading it around while trying to remove it- maybe this takes a while to come into effect?
 

Ruary 

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the instructions say check at day 10- if the 1st tray is empty then replace: if not, leave to day 14 and replace then, whether it's empty or not.
I am intrigued! This is not what the instructions on the Irish boxes of trays say, could you post a picture of the label instructions here?

Ruary
 

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, I believe, the efficacy is said to be around the 85% mark.
If this is with 2 treatments does anybody know what the efficacy is after one treatment? If it is say 75% then that may enought to get the bees "healthy" going into winter so that a final oxalic acid trickle is all that's needed. Wouldn't it be great to only have to use apiguad for 2 weeks.
 

madasafish 

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If this is with 2 treatments does anybody know what the efficacy is after one treatment? If it is say 75% then that may enought to get the bees "healthy" going into winter so that a final oxalic acid trickle is all that's needed. Wouldn't it be great to only have to use apiguad for 2 weeks.
Think about it. The winter bees are likely to be brood when treated. thymol cannot affect mites in brood. So the winter brood mites are: untouched...


Wasting your money...
 

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Think about it. The winter bees are likely to be brood when treated. thymol cannot affect mites in brood. So the winter brood mites are: untouched...
I have been thinking about it. All varroa in sealed worker brood will have been killed as they will have all emerged after 2 weeks treatment and at this time of year Ive no significant drone brood. All varroa not in capped brood will have been killed.
So if x2,treatments are 85% efficient then I would accept ?? efficiency as part of an IPM management system.
What I'm asking is will one treatment suffice as part of an IPM system?
 

Ruary 

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I note that there is no mention of checking on day 10!

There is mention of replacing tray after 14 days, there is also mention of keeping the medication on until all the gel disappears.

It is a document to be used for several countries with differing climates thus the range of treatment time given.

I would be VERY surprised if all the medication has been used up with 4 weeks in the british /Irish climate treating in the Autumn.
Ruary
 

madasafish 

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I have been thinking about it. All varroa in sealed worker brood will have been killed as they will have all emerged after 2 weeks treatment and at this time of year Ive no significant drone brood. All varroa not in capped brood will have been killed. QUOTE]

No. You are assuming that thymol kills mites 100%. It does not. Some mites will survive the first treatment and be laying eggs in brood throughout weeks 1-2...

If that is not true, look at the mite drop when treatment starts.. A big fall follwoed by slowly decreasing drops.. So there are mites still alive during treatment , still laying eggs..
 

MuswellMetro 

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I note that there is no mention of checking on day 10!

There is mention of replacing tray after 14 days, there is also mention of keeping the medication on until all the gel disappears.

It is a document to be used for several countries with differing climates thus the range of treatment time given.

I would be VERY surprised if all the medication has been used up with 4 weeks in the british /Irish climate treating in the Autumn.
Ruary
the FAQ on ther web site says this

Q: The first dose is supposed to be left on for 2 weeks but I’ve noticed that the
gel disappears after only a few days; do I need to put on another dose straight
away?
A: No, the speed at which the gel disappears depends on the temperature and on
the behaviour of the individual colony. It can take from 2 to 10 days to be removed
from the tray/dosing tray. The gel will reduce as vapour is given off and as the bees
detect the “foreign material” they try to remove it. At high temperatures the vapours
are stronger. The bees will find the gel and try to clean it up quickly. Strong colonies
generally work faster than smaller or weaker ones. At lower temperatures, the gel
sublimes more slowly. It is not detected as readily by the workers and they do not
remove it as quickly.
Even if the gel seems to have disappeared after only a few days there is no
need to apply a second treatment until 2 weeks have passed. The thymol, although not
in the tray, is active throughout the colony during this time, having been carried
around by the housecleaning bees
 

abb 

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hi every body ,my question is if the bees use the appiguard sach before the two weeks period do you still wait 2 weeks before you give them the second treatment? regards to all.:banghead:
see my vertues one by one and forgive my sins ten by ten:biggrinjester:
 

Skyhook 

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I am intrigued! This is not what the instructions on the Irish boxes of trays say, could you post a picture of the label instructions here?

Ruary
Yes- in another week when I take it out! :)
 

Skyhook 

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Think about it. The winter bees are likely to be brood when treated. thymol cannot affect mites in brood. So the winter brood mites are: untouched...
...
I thought the idea was to treat before the last generation is raised?
 

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