Another ‘Another swarm cell question’

[Bunn]

Hi all,

Took on our buckfast bees last July and I felt we had been doing fairly well. They are in 14x12 poly hive and seemed to build up very quickly when it started to get warmer.

Should have lots of space but where I was hesitant to add a super so early, they managed to fill a good 4-5 frames of the brood box with stores. I think it was four weeks ago I added the first super but decided to not add the queen excluder as there really wasn’t much space to lay. Turned out to be a good idea as they quickly drew the super out and around 3-4 frames became brood filled.

After a couple of chilly days the week before last I decided that they must have used up some of the stores and made more room to lay so I added the queen excluder last weekend underneath the super. Inspection today showed eggs in the brood box but what looked like no space to lay and three/four queen cells, none sealed but with larvae in. The super has two frames of brood left and the rest absolutely full of nectar/honey and starting to cap. Added another super, left the brood frames together but distributed the store filled frames between the old and new super to encourage drawing.

Now, I squashed all but one queen cell and placed it back into the brood box.

Thought I’d be fairly calm but I’m panicking a tough. Thoughts are either to:

1. Perform artificial swarm tomorrow.

2. Squash queen cell and move one super below queen excluder again to let her lay.

3. Squash queen cell, remove any 14x12 frames of stores and replace with foundation in the hope that they draw it out quickly for queen to lay and leave two supers as they are.

The artificial swarm isn’t too daunting as I feel fairly confident with it, and it would be nice to have two colonies, but right now I really just want to make sure the bees are in the best possible position for a strong full season!

Any help much appreciated!

 

[MuswellMetro]

Hi all,

Took on our buckfast bees last July and I felt we had been doing fairly well. They are in 14x12 poly hive and seemed to build up very quickly when it started to get warmer.

Should have lots of space but where I was hesitant to add a super so early, they managed to fill a good 4-5 frames of the brood box with stores. I think it was four weeks ago I added the first super but decided to not add the queen excluder as there really wasn’t much space to lay. Turned out to be a good idea as they quickly drew the super out and around 3-4 frames became brood filled.

After a couple of chilly days the week before last I decided that they must have used up some of the stores and made more room to lay so I added the queen excluder last weekend underneath the super. Inspection today showed eggs in the brood box but what looked like no space to lay and three/four queen cells, none sealed but with larvae in. The super has two frames of brood left and the rest absolutely full of nectar/honey and starting to cap. Added another super, left the brood frames together but distributed the store filled frames between the old and new super to encourage drawing.

Now, I squashed all but one queen cell and placed it back into the brood box.

Thought I’d be fairly calm but I’m panicking a tough. Thoughts are either to:

1. Perform artificial swarm tomorrow.

2. Squash queen cell and move one super below queen excluder again to let her lay.

3. Squash queen cell, remove any 14x12 frames of stores and replace with foundation in the hope that they draw it out quickly for queen to lay and leave two supers as they are.

The artificial swarm isn’t too daunting as I feel fairly confident with it, and it would be nice to have two colonies, but right now I really just want to make sure the bees are in the best possible position for a strong full season!

Any help much appreciated!

you will not stop them once they go into swarm mode, so you need to do a swarm control, whether that is a AS, demarree ,3 frame takaway or wally shaw that's up to you

However next time, i suggest double supering your buckfasts, and not be afraid to super as early as 6 frames of 14x12 brood

Remember

6 brood frames of 14x12= 9 frames of a standard National

the roost area for the bees that emerge from a frame of 14x12 brood equals 6 super frames,

add to that they need space to dry the nectar as well as cap it

Foundation is not space until it is drawn out as comb

 

[Finman]

.
It is time the first swarm to leave when they cap the first queen cells.

Artificial swarm is only way to stop the swarming fever.

 

[oliver90owner]

Do not wait a week before doing the A/S. They may well build QCs on 3 day old larvae and swarm in about 4 days.

Clearly a strong colony with no space. Did you deed fondant during the winter? That is one of the mistakes by newbees.

I have often needed to remove frames of stores from 14 x 12s,in the spring, to provide laying space. Bees do not eat that much honey during the winter in a warm, cosy poly hive - they use most of their stores for brooding in spring, but it depends on the weather as to when they get going.

If you have missed a Q/C they could be gone by now.... so don’t mess about waiting....

Remember, in future, that they may well soon need a super for honey and a super for nectar if the foraging conditions are good.

RAB

 

[Eyeman]

Hi all,

Took on our buckfast bees last July and I felt we had been doing fairly well. They are in 14x12 poly hive and seemed to build up very quickly when it started to get warmer.

Should have lots of space but where I was hesitant to add a super so early, they managed to fill a good 4-5 frames of the brood box with stores. I think it was four weeks ago I added the first super but decided to not add the queen excluder as there really wasn’t much space to lay. Turned out to be a good idea as they quickly drew the super out and around 3-4 frames became brood filled.

After a couple of chilly days the week before last I decided that they must have used up some of the stores and made more room to lay so I added the queen excluder last weekend underneath the super. Inspection today showed eggs in the brood box but what looked like no space to lay and three/four queen cells, none sealed but with larvae in. The super has two frames of brood left and the rest absolutely full of nectar/honey and starting to cap. Added another super, left the brood frames together but distributed the store filled frames between the old and new super to encourage drawing.

Now, I squashed all but one queen cell and placed it back into the brood box.

Thought I’d be fairly calm but I’m panicking a tough. Thoughts are either to:

1. Perform artificial swarm tomorrow.

2. Squash queen cell and move one super below queen excluder again to let her lay.

3. Squash queen cell, remove any 14x12 frames of stores and replace with foundation in the hope that they draw it out quickly for queen to lay and leave two supers as they are.

The artificial swarm isn’t too daunting as I feel fairly confident with it, and it would be nice to have two colonies, but right now I really just want to make sure the bees are in the best possible position for a strong full season!

Any help much appreciated!

The colony now has one queen cell and most probably the resident queen. They are likely to swarm around the time that queen cell gets capped. As others have said you need to do an artificial swarm ASAP.

 

[Bunn]

Thanks all.

I didn't see the queen yesterday as there were so many bees which gives me the confidence that she hasn't gone yet. There were eggs which just reinforces my confidence.

Correct for me to leave the remaining queen cell (was the strongest of the few that we saw) and move this into the position in current hive? Or shall I squash to encourage a newer cell for any reason at all? The former seems to be the best option.

Will be performing this AS today before noon once the temp has picked up.

 

[Bunn]

Clearly a strong colony with no space. Did you deed fondant during the winter? That is one of the mistakes by newbees.
RAB

I did feed a small amount of fondant coming out of the winter but genuinely only around 500g. This was because I was confident they'd be okay but wanted to be sure - standard newbie worrying I guess.

This is all good learning for my first full season, just disappointed that I haven't managed to prevent it.

 

[Eyeman]

Thanks all.

I didn't see the queen yesterday as there were so many bees which gives me the confidence that she hasn't gone yet. There were eggs which just reinforces my confidence.

Correct for me to leave the remaining queen cell (was the strongest of the few that we saw) and move this into the position in current hive? Or shall I squash to encourage a newer cell for any reason at all? The former seems to be the best option.

Will be performing this AS today before noon once the temp has picked up.

If you don't find the queen then perform Snellgrove II A/S as described by Wally Shaw.
http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Swarm-Control-Wally-Shaw.pdf
If you find the queen then you've got other options which was already been suggested.
I was pointing out in an earlier thread that knocking down the queen cells to leave only one is something I would do if I also removed the queen from that hive. Your setup suggested you left one queen cell and the resident queen= she is going to swarm.
Best of luck!

 

[MuswellMetro]

i agree with o90o that well stocked 14x12 going into winter hardly ever needs fondant. As i celebrated by big 70 birthday this year i went away somewhere warm for 6 weeks February/March.

The only hive i had a problem with was one i had on a university shared apiary, The other beekeeper placed 2.5kg of fondant "just in Case" on and i came back to find Queen cells on my first inspection in late March due to honeyblock

 

[Bunn]

All sorted (I think).

Found the queen and caged her as she was on the frame with queen cell. She's back in the old location with new brood box, a couple of frames of BIAS, a couple of frames of stores and plenty of foundation to hopefully keep them busy. Hopefully they draw it out quickly for her! Also two supers on top as before with lots of nectar starting to be capped and super full of foundation (placed on top yesterday) - this already has some nice wax being drawn out.

Old brood box in new location with queen cell, BIAS, nurse bees etc.

It all seemed to go very smoothly! Fingers crossed they settle down and it's as simple as now just having two colonies.

New hive ordered with a few additional bits.

Thanks all for the helpful, understanding responses.

Learnt a lot and will take all forwards.

 

[Bunn]

i agree with o90o that well stocked 14x12 going into winter hardly ever needs fondant. As i celebrated by big 70 birthday this year i went away somewhere warm for 6 weeks February/March.

The only hive i had a problem with was one i had on a university shared apiary, The other beekeeper placed 2.5kg of fondant "just in Case" on and i came back to find Queen cells on my first inspection in late March due to honeyblock

This is one of the main lessons I've learnt this weekend.

It's built my confidence in the poly hive being able to carry them through the winter without too much of the stores being used. That being said, I'll be able to pay more attention to weight of the hive and other signs moving forwards.

 

[beeno]

All sorted (I think).

Found the queen and caged her as she was on the frame with queen cell. She's back in the old location with new brood box, a couple of frames of BIAS, a couple of frames of stores and plenty of foundation to hopefully keep them busy. Hopefully they draw it out quickly for her! Also two supers on top as before with lots of nectar starting to be capped and super full of foundation (placed on top yesterday) - this already has some nice wax being drawn out.

Put a QX under the brood box as they may still want to swarm and watch out for QCs.