And there was a great wailing and a gnashing of teeth.........

[Patrick1]

I am new to beekeeping and of course joined the local BBKA group, because you do. I haven't been at all surprised to discover the that both the local group and national association fall very much into the "old farts" pattern that is common to clubs and groups in the country. Pandemic aside, the local group have offered me almost nothing, no course, no mentor, v little advise etc etc. You do get tea and cake at the get togethers but these are mostly at a very inconvenient time if you have a job!
The only use of the BBKA is the insurance and the magazine. Only a little of the mag is interesting (understandable as it covers a wide range of readership) but I do find it massively biased in its views, I would find it far more useful if they reported both side and let me draw a conclusion. I don't need to preached at. As for the vitriol towards BE and the importation issue, that has been shocking. From what I gather, importation of bees has been going on for decades, where are their earlier arguments? They have the perfect set up to promote home grown apiaries, use the club network to get new members supplied or help out those with high loses. If they killed the demand they would kill the supply. But they would rather throw bricks than do anything positive.
As for BE, I have always found them to be a decent company, that said I don't agree with them on the import issue but not gonna fall out over it.

A good summery of the current position, what many do not understand is supply and demand. If the BBKA spent more time teaching beekeepers how to queen rear and make splits in a practical way the business of importing would soon be a thing of the past, they would rather promote their narrow minded white middle class theory approach, after all once you actually teach someone to do something they don’t need you anymore . Maybe it’s a security thing with them, maybe they feel vulnerable.

Importing bees is now over 100 years old if you consider what Brother Adams OSB OBE done for beekeeping.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Importing bees is now over 100 years old if you consider what Brother Adams OSB OBE done for beekeeping.

Probably over 150 years - I've just bought a first edition of a book published in 1881 by TW Cowan (Founder of the BBKA) as well as an advertisement for a veil that slips neatly over the Beekeepers top hat, there are numerous advertisements in there for imported bees as well as 'English' ones (the rest of the UK or the word 'British' didn't seem to exist then)

 

[madasafish]

A good summery of the current position, what many do not understand is supply and demand. If the BBKA spent more time teaching beekeepers how to queen rear and make splits in a practical way the business of importing would soon be a thing of the past, they would rather promote their narrow minded white middle class theory approach, after all once you actually teach someone to do something they don’t need you anymore . Maybe it’s a security thing with them, maybe they feel vulnerable.

Importing bees is now over 100 years old if you consider what Brother Adams OSB OBE done for beekeeping.

I must be middle class but I try to get rid of my trainees asap - but of course am always at hand for advice and help. Not that I am a genius but in the land of the blind, the one-eyed beekeeper is King.

Our other trainers have similar approaches and do the same. And we will help when beekeepers are ill/incapacitated/cannot cope with a problem.

I would imagine many trainers have the same attitudes: I have only personally encountered help and assistance and encouragement to diy.

 

[drex]

All praise to our moderators they seem to have a light touch. I do not know why JBM is no longer a mod, but with his personality it is probably for the best, but I do value his input on here still, even if the delivery can at times be blunt

 

[Boston Bees]

JBM is no longer a mod, but with his personality it is probably for the best, but I do value his input on here still, even if the delivery can at times be blunt

There's no need for that kind of language on here!

Oh, sorry, you said blunt. Misread it.

 

[Swn58]

I've just bought a first edition of a book published in 1881 by TW Cowan (Founder of the BBKA) as well as an advertisement for a veil that slips neatly over the Beekeepers top hat,

Are they still making them? It's a pain trying to find a veil that fits under my top hat.....

 

[Goodwood]

Also some members have been removed for offensive private messages and one for stalking a moderator.
Oh and I do remember having to edit a few posts which while not offensive in themselves were guaranteed to provoke.
[/QUOTE

ok thanks

 

[Ian123]

Mmmm……..moderator stalking that could pass those long winter months

 

[BugsInABox]

posting this question here as I hope it might survive on Mr Jenkin's thread....is this forum being moderated for reasons other than offensive posts?

Ive felt opprobrium as a result of mod intervention only on a couple of occasions (mostly as a result of frustration with Karol’s climate science views to which he is of course entitled bless him ). Oh, and once when I used the phrase sod him when offering advice as to dealing with an unreasonable neighbour (- as in ‘sod all use for that’ - but perhaps it has another questionable derivation). The initial response is ‘how dare they think I was using a sexual swear word, I never swear I must challenge the perception I might’ and to ask for justification and restitution. Such is the nature of instant internet communication. A whisky later and the facts on the floor are: they dare ‘cos they can’, and more importantly because someone has to.
Another example: they don’t say Jenkins’ or RAB’s be-littleing is acceptable; they just say that his advice along side it is good and leave threads calling his tactlessness out intact. The wider forum can continue to offer a hug to those in RABs crossfire and shake a collective fist at him (though not 2 fingers!). A month on, those having received a RAB like dressing down can join the collective hug and fist shaking - communities have self policed this way for centuries, it’s remarkable we achieve it here!
I’ve done my share of calling RAB out (and not been mod censored for it) but his ilk does serve a purpose too. I was nervous of posting on the main forums for some time; as there is a somewhat cosseted beginners forum thinking a bit before talking with the grownups is a good thing I’d argue. I still post what might be dafter Q’s in the beginners forum.
Our mods seem to tolerate eye rolling (and stronger dissent) at their decisions pretty well and I (at least after a whisky) haven’t detected ego or empire building behind it. The tone of debate here is lively, challenging and boisterous - plenty that would be shut down elsewhere isn’t here. I suppose if a mod makes a character or reputation spoiling decision then a 1-1 with them is probably the way forward but are many of the interventions truly on that scale even if they feel that way initially?
I’ve not been around these parts that long but I think Dani’s intervention into a spat between Finman and Pargyl a few months ago - along the lines of ‘Come on Finny we’ve all made fools of ourselves on here at some point!’ sets the tone. Helpful to know our mods aren’t and never were angels and should provide a reassurance to any currently sensing opprobrium - ‘this too shall pass’.
This isn’t a democracy so the only real restitution is collapse of the state that is our forum - but currently it feels more Singapore than N Korea.

 

[Patrick1]

I think generally they do a good job, I have been taken to task before and appreciate what they are trying to do, however sometimes as with a company advertising obviously through some kind of fake address they cannot prevent all the advertising feeling happy in the way it is.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Clearly you have a personal agenda here that I would have thought better not publicised on this forum.

Far from it: Patrick's opinions and ideas ought to be of great interest to us all.

Publicise! Speak out! Discuss!

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Ive felt opprobrium as a result of mod intervention only on a couple of occasions (mostly as a result of frustration with Karol’s climate science views to which he is of course entitled bless him ). Oh, and once when I used the phrase sod him when offering advice as to dealing with an unreasonable neighbour (- as in ‘sod all use for that’ - but perhaps it has another questionable derivation). The initial response is ‘how dare they think I was using a sexual swear word, I never swear I must challenge the perception I might’ and to ask for justification and restitution. Such is the nature of instant internet communication. A whisky later and the facts on the floor are: they dare ‘cos they can’, and more importantly because someone has to.
Another example: they don’t say Jenkins’ or RAB’s be-littleing is acceptable; they just say that his advice along side it is good and leave threads calling his tactlessness out intact. The wider forum can continue to offer a hug to those in RABs crossfire and shake a collective fist at him (though not 2 fingers!). A month on, those having received a RAB like dressing down can join the collective hug and fist shaking - communities have self policed this way for centuries, it’s remarkable we achieve it here!
I’ve done my share of calling RAB out (and not been mod censored for it) but his ilk does serve a purpose too. I was nervous of posting on the main forums for some time; as there is a somewhat cosseted beginners forum thinking a bit before talking with the grownups is a good thing I’d argue. I still post what might be dafter Q’s in the beginners forum.
Our mods seem to tolerate eye rolling (and stronger dissent) at their decisions pretty well and I (at least after a whisky) haven’t detected ego or empire building behind it. The tone of debate here is lively, challenging and boisterous - plenty that would be shut down elsewhere isn’t here. I suppose if a mod makes a character or reputation spoiling decision then a 1-1 with them is probably the way forward but are many of the interventions truly on that scale even if they feel that way initially?
I’ve not been around these parts that long but I think Dani’s intervention into a spat between Finman and Pargyl a few months ago - along the lines of ‘Come on Finny we’ve all made fools of ourselves on here at some point!’ sets the tone. Helpful to know our mods aren’t and never were angels and should provide a reassurance to any currently sensing opprobrium - ‘this too shall pass’.
This isn’t a democracy so the only real restitution is collapse of the state that is our forum - but currently it feels more Singapore than N Korea.

In my view RAB was an extremely valuable group asset insofar as it made beekeepers THINK (as he so often exhorted them to do) before simply rushing into print with questions that ought to have been evident had trainee keeper absorbed even a small part of the knowledge disseminated at association training sessions. OK there's debate about the validity content of some of the stuff being bandied about "in that other place". When forum members have been around for a while, not just dipped in without doing a basic search, they often subconsciously absorb a lot of knowledge simply reading in here. He had little time for anyone giving bad advice and said so quite bluntly. In that I agree with him.
I well recall my early venture in beekeeping and joining training "wrong way round" (or perhaps right way for me) in that I started on practical, having missed signing up for theory. The group leader was highly competent and "up to date" with matters such as ventilation etc. rather than the usual mantras. Thus I gained a lot plus I discovered this forum (before the beginners section was created) so I had huge input from "respectfully playing amongst the big boys" and could compare experienced practitioners with newcomers/chancers by reading responses from JBM, RAB and Hivemaker amongst others. When the following year came round I had most of the theory course already in my head from the forum so it reinforced the subject content. In due course and in gratitude I began to repay my association by helping out assisting the lead keeper in practical sessions, eventually progressing to leading sessions myself and mentoring others as they join our hobby. The only drawback I find is that there are a small number who simply do not have enough self confidence to manipulate bee colonies and every week they ask the same questions. When asked what they think they should do they answer correctly but just weren't confident in their own abilities.

 

[Erichalfbee]

It's fascinating how beekeeping lore often intersects with unexpected sources like biblical verses! Your anecdote about the BBKA comic and the debate over hive insulation versus ventilation is quite thought-provoking. It's remarkable how beekeeping practices evolve based on different perspectives. The imagery of the ivory towers shifting as beekeeping traditions are challenged is vivid indeed!

Bot?

 

[ericbeaumont]

Bot?

Must be. Why does it bother? What purpose does it serve?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Must be. Why does it bother? What purpose does it serve?

It doesn't have a mind of its own............yet.

What and Why is a Bot

 

[ericbeaumont]

It doesn't have a mind of its own

Are you going to execute it?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Are you going to execute it?

I should.

 

[pargyle]

The malicious ones are usually there to direct you to other websites ... often using hidden links but there are various other ones that simply harvest information , although I had a good look at this one and there's nothing I can find that suggests it is a BOT... if it is then its almost certainly one of these:

Social bots. These bots, often considered opinion bots, influence discussions with users on social media platforms. They pick up topics where there is discussion or arguments and fuel the fire...

Having said that... there's s few human ones doing that as well !

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you look who’s online at any time there are lots of them. The rule here is if they post they are out.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Must be. Why does it bother? What purpose does it serve?

It doesn't have a mind of its own

We talking about the BBKA again?