And there was a great wailing and a gnashing of teeth.........

[Swarm]

I know there will be staunch BBKA members tutting at this, I know of one at least and he is adamant bees survive equally without. As a trainer I have heard him tell others he has never done so, so it isn't necessary, imho a non thinking beekeeper stuck in the trenches of old BBKA thinking.

I'm not a member, do people just use membership for insurance? I can't understand why they would join an organisation they find so useless if this were not the case.
I could show you colonies that survive equally well without insulation. We had no Winter loss this year, I would say about 40% in battered, old boxes due for repair (or replacing) with no insulation. They all had the same treatment and feeding regime, two were heavy enough on Ivy so got no invert. One of those was huge on first inspection and still had half it's Winter stores.
My friend runs his apiaries entirely without insulation and he doesn't lose colonies.
Should add we both use poly nucs but more for convenience and price.

 

[hemo]

Of course colonies survive, insulation though stabilises colony temp all year round against heat loss and heat radiation. As I find less stores are consumed in winter with colony heat stabilised due to less heat loss, again this spring I removed stores as there was to much mainly ivy form the aroma. This excess was used later as the weather changed so a win for the bees.

 

[Swarm]

But you are forgetting the 60% with insulation overhead. It's not a case of yes they survive, they do equally well as the insulated colonies.
I've used Abelo poly roofs since they offered poly nats, not so much for insulation but ready made, lighter and doesn't leak and much less fuss than assembling a cedar roof and fitting with PIR. None of my cedar roofs have insulation.

 

[Patrick1]

Problem is that I have noticed is that some new beeks who hang on the coat tails of an individual who tends to take control can do little wrong, so myths and bad practice are perpetuated.

The BBKA are long past their sell by date, the magazine is by contribution so anyone who want to massage their own ego can get published, true or not doesn’t seem to matter, it’s the Theory of everything and practical of nothing.

Governed by white middle class academics, changes are needed. More youngsters, more beekeepers instead of keepers of bees.

More diversity at the top, dismiss the lot, scrap the magazine and start again, when the tree and branch system is no longer healthy there is but one course of action.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I could show you colonies that survive equally well without insulation.

And yet you admit to putting insulation under the roof - which is what we're discussing here

 

[Swarm]

I already said 60% were insulated, not under the roof, Abelo roofs. The rest 40% were not.

But you are forgetting the 60% with insulation overhead. It's not a case of yes they survive, they do equally well as the insulated colonies.
I've used Abelo poly roofs since they offered poly nats, not so much for insulation but ready made, lighter and doesn't leak and much less fuss than assembling a cedar roof and fitting with PIR. None of my cedar roofs have insulation.

 

[Amari]

I've used Abelo poly roofs since they offered poly nats, not so much for insulation but ready made, lighter and doesn't leak and much less fuss than assembling a cedar roof and fitting with PIR. None of my cedar roofs have insulation.

 

[madasafish]

I know there will be staunch BBKA members tutting at this, I know of one at least and he is adamant bees survive equally without. As a trainer I have heard him tell others he has never done so, so it isn't necessary, imho a non thinking beekeeper stuck in the trenches of old BBKA thinking.

If he lives anywhere near your location in Sussex, winter means a light dusting of snow and -3c for 4 days a year so insulation appears an irrelevance.

 

[enrico]

The BBKA are long past their sell by date, the magazine is by contribution so anyone who want to massage their own ego can get published, true or not doesn’t seem to matter, it’s the Theory of everything and practical of nothing.

Governed by white middle class academics, changes are needed. More youngsters, more beekeepers instead of keepers of bees.

More diversity at the top, dismiss the lot, scrap the magazine and start again, when the tree and branch system is no longer healthy there is but one course of action.

Wow! Thanks! I ' got published' because I wanted to help beginners. Apparently I massaged my ego at the same time! What a sweeping statement!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Wow! Thanks! I ' got published' because I wanted to help beginners. Apparently I massaged my ego at the same time! What a sweeping statement!

Enrico don’t take it personally. I doubt Patrick’s comment was anything more than a generalisation. After all everybody knows how helpful your blog is to beginners and isn’t that a copy of the series of articles you wrote?

 

[Patrick1]

Please, anyone offended by my generalisation accept my apologies, some verry good articles are printed despite the BBKA’s efforts.

My comments are really aimed at the slabs, often two pages of uninterrupted text, pointless as is being shown by the comments on this forum and many other places because no one other than the author reads them.

Recently the BBKA decided to ban me from advertising and stopped sending me the magazine ( not much of a loss ) in the last issue I see they criticized my comments about them and what I was doing, later in the same issue an article supported in some way what I was doing, my point is they don’t even read it themselves

 

[enrico]

Enrico don’t take it personally. I doubt Patrick’s comment was anything more than a generalisation. After all everybody knows how helpful your blog is to beginners and isn’t that a copy of the series of articles you wrote?

Don't worry, water off a ducks back, I just hate that people criticise what others do without being prepared to try and fix it. Luckily personal choice means we don't have to be a member or read a magazine if we don't want to.

 

[enrico]

Please, anyone offended by my generalisation accept my apologies, some verry good articles are printed despite the BBKA’s efforts.

My comments are really aimed at the slabs, often two pages of uninterrupted text, pointless as is being shown by the comments on this forum and many other places because no one other than the author reads them.

Recently the BBKA decided to ban me from advertising and stopped sending me the magazine ( not much of a loss ) in the last issue I see they criticized my comments about them and what I was doing, later in the same issue an article supported in some way what I was doing, my point is they don’t even read it themselves

Sounds interesting! No offence taken just commenting!

 

[Boston Bees]

Wow! Thanks! I ' got published' because I wanted to help beginners. Apparently I massaged my ego at the same time!

You did though. Admit it. To deny that is to deny human nature.

It's the same when you refer beginners to the blog posts you have written here. You aren't doing that purely in a self-sacrificing good-Samaritan way. You want the "Likes" too.

This isn't meant as a criticism, just a reflection on why we really do things.

Of course, Patrick was being too harsh when he implied that ego-massage was the only reason people write for the BBKA. It's both ego-massage and a desire to be helpful. Just like when people post on here.

 

[Erichalfbee]

A good deed does make you feel better

 

[Tony Warren]

I am new to beekeeping and of course joined the local BBKA group, because you do. I haven't been at all surprised to discover the that both the local group and national association fall very much into the "old farts" pattern that is common to clubs and groups in the country. Pandemic aside, the local group have offered me almost nothing, no course, no mentor, v little advise etc etc. You do get tea and cake at the get togethers but these are mostly at a very inconvenient time if you have a job!
The only use of the BBKA is the insurance and the magazine. Only a little of the mag is interesting (understandable as it covers a wide range of readership) but I do find it massively biased in its views, I would find it far more useful if they reported both side and let me draw a conclusion. I don't need to preached at. As for the vitriol towards BE and the importation issue, that has been shocking. From what I gather, importation of bees has been going on for decades, where are their earlier arguments? They have the perfect set up to promote home grown apiaries, use the club network to get new members supplied or help out those with high loses. If they killed the demand they would kill the supply. But they would rather throw bricks than do anything positive.
As for BE, I have always found them to be a decent company, that said I don't agree with them on the import issue but not gonna fall out over it.

 

[enrico]

You did though. Admit it. To deny that is to deny human nature.

It's the same when you refer beginners to the blog posts you have written here. You aren't doing that purely in a self-sacrificing good-Samaritan way. You want the "Likes" too.

This isn't meant as a criticism, just a reflection on why we really do things.

Of course, Patrick was being too harsh when he implied that ego-massage was the only reason people write for the BBKA. It's both ego-massage and a desire to be helpful. Just like when people post on here.

It's no good massaging my ego. It's far too large already

 

[The Poot]

It's no good massaging my ego. It's far too large already

(The like was just to make you feel good).

 

[holmbee]

The BBKA are long past their sell by date, the magazine is by contribution so anyone who want to massage their own ego can get published, true or not doesn’t seem to matter, it’s the Theory of everything and practical of nothing.

Governed by white middle class academics, changes are needed. More youngsters, more beekeepers instead of keepers of bees.

More diversity at the top, dismiss the lot, scrap the magazine and start again, when the tree and branch system is no longer healthy there is but one course of action.

Clearly you have a personal agenda here that I would have thought better not publicised on this forum.

 

[holmbee]

Great advice from the BBKA...the options for mockery are narrowing.

To be fair they would be like that if they were in the BBKA or not. It isn't the BBKA' s fault they are the way they are! I am not a member by the way!

Pleased to say I am a member. I have a great local association with very friendly membership. We train around twenty five new members each year (except in Covid year) and in addition bulk buy jars, varroa treatment and foundation. Like all beekeeping it does not inhibit an open mind that questions all advice you receive whether from BBKA members or members on this forum. A pity some members here have such a jaundiced view!