Alternative insulation

[Erichalfbee]

How small should the entrance be reduced to?

Whatever entrance you have make sure it's mouse proof.
A metal mouse guard with the entrance block removed works for some people. I use a slotted entrance (bee space height) half the length of the block or a home made portcullis type arrangement of frame pins in a half length entrance. I prefer these to a metal mouse guard which can knock pollen off and you can leave them on all year apart from wasp time. Some on here use underfloor entrances which need no change at all through the seasons.

 

[Dishmop]

I packed some of that big bubble bubble wrap around and between a couple of nucs last winter. Put a slab of Kingspan across both and and a bit of old ply over that. Rain runs off the ply away from the bubble wrap and not down the sides of the hives.

Building another box to fit around the hive might probably work quite well as a windbreak.

 

[Jimy Dee]

Bubble wrap is an excellent insulator. I both put it on top and also wrap it around the hive. 4 or 5 layers. Most shops dealing in big items want rid of it. Put another skin on top to throw water off. I wrap chord around bubble wrap to secure it.

 

[Dishmop]

Bubble wrap is an excellent insulator. I both put it on top and also wrap it around the hive. 4 or 5 layers. Most shops dealing in big items want rid of it. Put another skin on top to throw water off. I wrap chord around bubble wrap to secure it.

You should be careful of wrapping it too tight to the hive in case of condensation..allow space for any rain to clear away.

I find that standing hives on paving stones works well. Stops the damp, or you can try Kingspan......or both.

 

[madasafish]

I use cheap second hand used Kingspan /Celotex or similar - mainly ex Ebay .. Works out at around £2 per 3m x2m sheet...



Can't get cheaper and it saws perfectly - especially if painted by prior owner..

 

[drstitson]

it should be noted that a £3.50 1200x500x50 sheet from wickes will do two hives single layered (or a single hive with a fondant feeder cut out in lower level) PLUS a thick dummy board suitable for even deep hives.

not bad value IMHO even if you can't charm the builders.

 

[Pips]

That's great- will get some board.

 

[Pips]

Do most people insulate around the hive as well! I was going to put some wire round to stop woodpeckers, although clearly this is not insulating! Is mouseguard essential too? I would have though the beeps would see off any mice that came in.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I would have though the beeps would see off any mice that came in.

Not when they are clustered.
Mice can do a lot of damage

I have three cedar boxes, each with a nadired shallow. This year I am trying a Recticel hive jacket a la derekm

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Do most people insulate around the hive as well!

No - just 50 or 100mm on top of the crown board

 

[user 6228]

Not when they are clustered.
Mice can do a lot of damage

I have three cedar boxes, each with a nadired shallow. This year I am trying a Recticel hive jacket a la derekm

The detailed behavouir of bees in insulated environments is undiscovered country...but we have found two things

1) THey certainly cluster less, a lot less (dont confuse thus with eating more stores)
2) Any Winter intruders are certainly NOT welcome, The warm bees in the cold give a "very warm" reception. We dont go in to insulated boxes anymore in winter when the outside temp is below 16C. Friendly Miss Jekyll vaporises and Miss Hyde appears.

 

[itma]

Do most people insulate around the hive as well!

No.
Generally, those of us that think more insulation is a good idea have bought into poly hives.

Do treat mice seriously. Mouseguards are very cheap insurance.

If you have Green Woodpeckers locally, they may cause a problem, but usually only when the ground is frozen. Wire mesh cages need to be 'stood off' by at least 6 inches.
An alternative is to drape the hive in strips of robust, flexible, slippery plastic - so Woody can't get a perch to peck from. Sheets pinned to each side allows ventilation of the hive walls (bubblewrap=condensation=wood rot). Breathable Tyvek roofing 'felt' should be ideal for the job.

 

[Amari]

Today I visited B&* but they don't stock insulation board so I proceeded to J*wsons. The most helpful salesperson showed me a pile of slightly damaged Recticel at reduced price - £9 plus Vat for 25mm 2.4x1.2m. He cut it into two pieces to fit in my car and asked if he should keep future damaged boards for me, almost hinting he might 'arrange' suitable boards to become available!
A satisfied customer emerged. NB: last year W*ickes declined to cut a similar board up so I had to buy a saw and cut the board in their car park.

 

[rayz_x]

I guess this has been discussed before but I haven't seen any scientific research on it. A few thoughts...

Assuming the hive has an open mesh floor I believe the mesh floor is left open to avoid condensation build up?

I realise heat rises and will not all be lost through the floor but with a mesh floor surely you can only put so much insulation in the roof and eventually you reach the point where it doesn't increase any heat retention at all?

Last winter we had a bigger problem with rain driving hard against a National brood and half and moisture getting between the boxes. I think this was the main cause of moisture in the hive.

Would a large sheet on top of the roof be a better option? This would reduce the heat removed by snow sitting on the roof, avoid melting snow running down the sides and the overhang would provide some shelter for the sides.

Ray

 

[Erichalfbee]

Last year I had water ingress in one hive so made a loose jacket from an old tarpaulin which fitted under the roof. It worked very well in keeping the driving rain out

 

[BeeJayBee]

Do most people insulate around the hive as well!

This year I am trying a Recticel hive jacket a la derekm

I've seen a fair number of Derek-inspired reticel jackets locally, even during the summer. So yes, some people do insulate around the hive as well, using a slip-on box that's described somewhere or other on the forum. Here's a picture (more here http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=289 ):

 

[maddydog]

All my hives now have kingspan jackets as per beejoyful‘s post. However, I glue thin black corex to the outside for additional weather protection.

 

[Melbee]

The local carpet shop has given me an offcut from an unwanted roll of underlay. I'm planning to cut it, 2 / 3 pieces thick,so it will lie over the top of the crown board.

A beekeeper friend in Scotland has done this for years - said it works fine. He then sits the insulation over the tubs of fondant when he puts this in later on.

 

[itma]

The local carpet shop has given me an offcut from an unwanted roll of underlay. I'm planning to cut it, 2 / 3 pieces thick,so it will lie over the top of the crown board.

A beekeeper friend in Scotland has done this for years - said it works fine. He then sits the insulation over the tubs of fondant when he puts this in later on.

As insulation, its not really very good.

Celotex (and its equivalents) are actually rather good at doing exactly what they are designed to do - insulate!

For the same thickness as Celotex, foam underlay is probably about half as good an insulator, something about the same as dry cardboard.
However, a 'thin' Celotex board is 50mm thick, whereas carpet underlay is about 10mm thick.

So, a single thickness of carpet underlay is going to provide about 1/10th the insulation of about £2 worth of thin Celotex board.



You shouldn't need to put fondant in (even "later on") if you have enough stores in place before winter.



///ADDED --- and every WBC I've seen has holes in its coverboard. If you don't seal them, your underlay will go soggy with condensation and it will then become a heat conductor rather than an insulator …

 

[user 6228]

The local carpet shop has given me an offcut from an unwanted roll of underlay. I'm planning to cut it, 2 / 3 pieces thick,so it will lie over the top of the crown board.

A beekeeper friend in Scotland has done this for years - said it works fine. He then sits the insulation over the tubs of fondant when he puts this in later on.

A super on top of the crown board with a pillow slip of full of woodshavings that leaves no gaps in super.

This isnt as good as recticel/celotex/kingspan., but it will beat underlay hands down.