All colonies swarm every year

[beeno]

Hi all,
I have knicked this from a SixFooter post in relation to his colonies. However, I am interested in how many beeks this holds for including successful prevention of swarm attempts since I am aspiring to become a second year beek next year.

 

[Pete D]

From my experiences last year (also my 2nd) I can say that they all wanted to swarm at some stage during the year.
Some early on (April / May) almost predictable and I felt in control with my AS plans, some much later (June / early July) when I felt 'out of control' a bit.
The later swarms were either younger queens (2nd year) or original AS swarms that had been reunited and due to no or bad mating and they swarmed again.
Last March I had 12 'boxes' with bees in and I peaked at 32 in July although 8of these were splits that I had made and 4 nucs with bought in queens, so 12became 20 for a while at the peak.
This year I am going to do my AS again and some walk away splits and I have 19 boxes of bees currently............... any bets on 40 come July !

Pete D

 

[Luminos]

My first ever colony - from a nuc - didn't swarm.
This year, one of mine did despite A/S and I lost it because I was out all that day

 

[Dishmop]

To my knowledge I didnt have any swarms this year.

 

[Finman]

.
Swarming is natural habit of bees. It is necessary to bees to exist.
Non swarmy colonies derive from selection by human.

If you leave a swarm virgin into a hive it is quite sure that it swarms next summer.

big colonies swarm first.

 

[For want of a better word]

None of mine swarmed this year, expect they will make attempts next season if the weather is OK.

I have non swarmy bees..... possibly selected non swarmy allele.

Africanised bees or B*st variety that has African in its genome swarm regularly, or at least the whole colony relocates to follow the nectar flows... I believe?

 

[Chris B]

Swarminess is a genetic variable.
In nature, excessive swarminess would be punished by non-survival.
In a managed hive, beekeepers tend to not only tolerate excessive swarminess but inadvertently encourage it by allowing swarmy bees to multiply more than non-swarmy ones. We are our own worst enemy.

I know queens I've bought from non-swarmy lines (Buckfasts) have always shown less than 50% swarming in the summer after the autumn introduction. Maybe 30% is usual.

Of course there are other variables involved in swarming too.

 

[Pete D]

Chris,
I know you buy in young mated queens every year but what %age if any swarm the 1st year or the 2nd as I think you replace them by the 3rd.
Was this year any different to usual.
The idea being I guess that young queens wont normally swarm and you maximise your crop.
thanks
Pete D

 

[tonybloke]

To my knowledge I didnt have any swarms this year.

would this perchance be down to you continually 'bleeding off' frames of brood to keep the colony in your obs hive down to a suitable size?

 

[BeeNice]

This year I am going to do my AS again and some walk away splits and I have 19 boxes of bees currently............... any bets on 40 come July !

Pete D

Hi pete
You seem to have had a lot of splits. Where these hives almost all nuc size and not very larger colonies? If so, combine the colonies into larger single colonies. The bees are happier and produce more honey. One larger colony produces more honey that 2 small colonies even if the 2 have more bees. Also you would not have to buy in extra queens, which is more expense.
regards Steven

 

[oliver90owner]

You seem to have had a lot of splits

Going from two to thirty odd in eighteen months either needs a lot of splits or a lot of buying in/swarm collection! Finishing with nineteen, from two initially, over two seasons is a good expansion rate, considering the miserable season this last 'summer'. When Pete changes his queens (from his own selected stock), he should be in a good position to go bee farming.

 

[Pete D]

This year I am going to do my AS again and some walk away splits and I have 19 boxes of bees currently............... any bets on 40 come July !

Pete D

Hi pete
You seem to have had a lot of splits. Where these hives almost all nuc size and not very larger colonies? If so, combine the colonies into larger single colonies. The bees are happier and produce more honey. One larger colony produces more honey that 2 small colonies even if the 2 have more bees. Also you would not have to buy in extra queens, which is more expense.
regards Steven

Oh yes, I am well aware that more bees and not hives mean more honey.
This year I only harvested from 8 hives and had 420lb, these 8 were the result of uniting colonies early on, all the others were then nuc's / splits from my other 4, having read how to do multiple splits over a six week period and of course my 4 bought in queens.
The reason I have 19 now is that I have united down from mid 20's and made a decision to take more through winter knowing that I have spares if I have had any bad matings this year and also that I can combine them to 8 - 10 to ensure they are strong enough for the early crop.
I have mentioned this previously in my thread my 3rd year plan....

 

[Pete D]

You seem to have had a lot of splits

Going from two to thirty odd in eighteen months either needs a lot of splits or a lot of buying in/swarm collection! Finishing with nineteen, from two initially, over two seasons is a good expansion rate, considering the miserable season this last 'summer'. When Pete changes his queens (from his own selected stock), he should be in a good position to go bee farming.

Yes, rapid expansion.
First 2 hives April 2011, 6 by July by swarm control (or lack of) and 2 collected swarms. These 6 united down to 4 in August 2011.
Then in September 2011 I bought 6 hives and 3 nucs from a member on here who was selling on behalf of a friend. So I took 13 into winter 2011/2012.
Came out with 12 as one turned drone layer and was shook out.
So spring 2012 had 12, 8 earmarked for honey and 4 for splits / nucs.
Harvested from the 8 after unites following AS.
The other 4 became 8, then 12 as some not successful after 2nd split. Bought in 4 queens then as wanted to try some Buckfast from Ged Marshall.
Housed a couple of swarms and had one more go at splits as was learning the art (from the original 4) and had nothing to lose and experience and learning to gain.
August 2012 started uniting.
Bit of an ambitious 2nd year beekeeping but following my week with Chris B learning some commercial tips I learnt that I could try a few different things and keep my options open if they didnt work out.
In terms of forage for all these bees, my honey hives were at 3 out apiaries and my splits and nucs were all in my home apiary.
Year 3 wont be so ambitious but I have the taste for it now.
Oh as an aside my new hobby has cost me £5k upto now and my 2 year beekeeping anniversary is April 2013
Pete D

 

[Dishmop]

would this perchance be down to you continually 'bleeding off' frames of brood to keep the colony in your obs hive down to a suitable size?

It wasnt just the obs hive I was refering to regarding swarms. Might be because I re-homed them in new condos, and they were too occupied making new furniture.

After I had been away from home for 10 days or so I though the obs hive didnt appear to be as full as I remember it being and I thought they might have swarmed, but after a few days I saw the queen and I think that due to the low amount of brood that she also perhaps had a holiday.
I wouldnt say they I "continualy bleed off " frames of brood.. Did it once this year and twice last year so not really any different to any other beek splitting or doing AS to lessen chances of swarming.

 

[Blatently_Obvious]

Not necessarily

If managed correctly and a/s is performed properly even "swarmy" bees can be controlled. The easiest way to avoid swarms is to buy good quality queens, which means spending money, something beekeepers are shy about, and providing enough room for the colony and the crop, avoid overcrowding!
It's beekeeping not Theorectical Physics!

 

[Chris B]

Chris,
I know you buy in young mated queens every year but what %age if any swarm the 1st year or the 2nd as I think you replace them by the 3rd.
Was this year any different to usual.
The idea being I guess that young queens wont normally swarm and you maximise your crop.
thanks
Pete D

1st year - less than 10% I reckon and zero for autumn splits.
2nd year queens, depends more on the queen. 30% would be normal for the Buckfasts and higher for others.

Main reason for young queens is the vigour but they certainly won't swarm as much either.

 

[REDWOOD]

Hive 1 no swarm, hive 2 superseder hive 3 AS reunited later with new queen.
An AS sounds more difficult than it is when you actually do it

 

[oliver90owner]

There lies half the problem. Blatently_obvious says 'The easiest way'.

The easiest way is not necessarily the better way to go. Need to get the priorities right first.

 

[Dave /Oscroft]

Swarming

Ive had more swarms from mine over the last three years than iv'e had hot diners ! turn my back and there off again. !! I went out to the supermarket one evening around 7.0 pm I come back and there up the tree again !
next year i'll try harder with the A/S.
Its all good experiance, as they say.

dave W

 

[Erichalfbee]

Ive had more swarms from mine over the last three years than iv'e had hot diners ! turn my back and there off again.
next year i'll try harder with the A/S.

dave W

I share your problem, unfortunately.
I had one colony go three times.
Instead of an AS how about shaking the bees into a box of foundation and putting the existing brood on top with an excluder in the middle and removing when emerged? You'd have to time it before the bees thought about making queen cells though.
Could that work?