Alien grub

[Howsoonisnow]

I've just re-queened a hive that failed to produce a queen after an artificial swarm.

Once they realised this, they produced a single large queen cell that you tell wasn't 100% normal and on removing it, it contained a weird grub with ubiquitious varroa attached.

My question is where did this grub come from? They were out of brood of all ages from ages before. Did a worker squeeze one out?; they didn't have laying workers and were just hopelessly queenless.

Thanks

 

[MuswellMetro]

I've just re-queened a hive that failed to produce a queen after an artificial swarm.

Once they realised this, they produced a single large queen cell that you tell wasn't 100% normal and on removing it, it contained a weird grub with ubiquitious varroa attached.

My question is where did this grub come from? They were out of brood of all ages from ages before. Did a worker squeeze one out?; they didn't have laying workers and were just hopelessly queenless.

Thanks

weird....what was weird about it,,,,,,,,,,,,green ,pink, mushy......how many queen cells have you opened up while beekeeping to compare it to

 

[Howsoonisnow]

It was dark brown; semi-flaccid but still just about living; it was about 2 cm long within a 5 cm long queen cell; in lay-man terms, it had an unhealthy look to it.

I've opened 100s: it was a world away from the pearly white plump larvae of a healthy Q cell.

 

[MuswellMetro]

It was dark brown; semi-flaccid but still just about living; it was about 2 cm long within a 5 cm long queen cell; in lay-man terms, it had an unhealthy look to it.

I've opened 100s: it was a world away from the pearly white plump larvae of a healthy Q cell.

Hmmm, well i saw exactly the same in a hive on Saturday, so you are not alone I am trying to work out what it is to

My first thoughts was it could be EFB, in my area EFB appears latent in most colonies

My scenerio.....and i could be wrong....is that there is a latent EFB infection in the hive that is kept very well under control in normal circumstances .......but with the queen cell the EFB infected larva has not been removed ( perhaps fewer nurse bees) and the EFB has developed further inside the QC

the QC i saw was large but distorted and fatter in the middle

I was thing of getting a few Lateral flow Test for EFB, but at £8, it could be expensive

Come lets see what others think

 

[Howsoonisnow]

Your description of your Q cell is in line with mine.

I'm sure this Q cell wasn't there when I inspected for the first time after the artificial swarm.

Is a worker egg that developed into a larvae that was subsequently ravished by varroa a possibility?

Do bees develop empty Q cells when they don't have any material to work with and they are hopelessly frustrated?

Latent viruses are with bees and every animal and they are often ignored.

 

[ellypatt]

Black queen cell virus?

 

[oliver90owner]

I was thing of getting a few Lateral flow Test for EFB, but at £8, it could be expensive


Call you local SBI?

 

[nonstandard]

I was thing of getting a few Lateral flow Test for EFB, but at £8, it could be expensive


Call you local SBI?

For once with you Rab

 

[oliver90owner]

For once with you Rab

Only once in all my posts? I, and quite a few others, would be mystified at that comment!!

 

[MuswellMetro]

I was thing of getting a few Lateral flow Test for EFB, but at £8, it could be expensive


Call you local SBI?

I have no open brood, this was a capped secondary queen cell , we were checking for emegency cells at 7 days in a brace comb mess , having left a charged cell...seven day before , so nothing to test, and the capped brood pattern is fair rather than good, but compounded that this is a hive moved from an assocation apiary and neither apiary or the hive is mine,

The LFD test the SBI uses requires open brood, so what can they test if i have no open brood
iBlack queen virus, maybe ,we'll look into that

 

[oliver90owner]

EFB is an open brood diease. I thought you knew that.

Likely the bees were not keeping it warm and it chilled?

 

[Howsoonisnow]

There wasn't an egg or larvae (for emergency cells) to generate a Q cell with.

 

[Hivemaker.]

There wasn't an egg or larvae (for emergency cells) to generate a Q cell with.

Egg laid by worker,so cell would never of been any good.

 

[Into the lions den]

These cells are commonplace. Its a drone larva they tried to convert into a queen, and they go so far, often in a lovely big cell, that often does just not look quite right, before at some stage the larva dies, and you see a big grey, turning brown, then turning black, and often staying that way for a long time. The bees seem quite happy with them for a while.

For the very reason described, when choosing a cell to leave when there are a few to choose from, we never select one drawn either on or adjacent to areas of drone brood.

Although its rare, EFB in a queen cell does occur. The flaccid discoloured larva tends to go against EFB, which has always been pasty and broken down when I have seen it before, and with the distictive and uttery vile alveii smell developing. Check it, or get your local bee inspector to test it if you are unsure.

 

[MuswellMetro]

These cells are commonplace. Its a drone larva they tried to convert into a queen, and they go so far, often in a lovely big cell, that often does just not look quite right, before at some stage the larva dies, and you see a big grey, turning brown, then turning black, and often staying that way for a long time. The bees seem quite happy with them for a while.

For the very reason described, when choosing a cell to leave when there are a few to choose from, we never select one drawn either on or adjacent to areas of drone brood.

Although its rare, EFB in a queen cell does occur. The flaccid discoloured larva tends to go against EFB, which has always been pasty and broken down when I have seen it before, and with the distictive and uttery vile alveii smell developing. Check it, or get your local bee inspector to test it if you are unsure.

Thanks, i am now sure it is a Drone Queen cells, by it location, just never seen a dying drone QC before

i am still going to test the next open brood though, even if it is only to try out a Lateral flow device for EFB, i have seen a very bad case of EFB with an SBI on my late Grandfather's hives in bedfordshire in 1996, that had the usual EFB unhealthy open brood but also the capped EFB mush larva as well.and that was not like the brown QC larva...which was darker so i was not that concerned, I was just puting forward the worst case scenerio of EFB in a queen cell...i did add a codicil in red

 

[Howsoonisnow]

That fully explains it to me so thanks for everyone's replies.

 

[simonwig]

Its a drone larva they tried to convert into a queen, and they go so far, often in a lovely big cell, that often does just not look quite right, before at some stage the larva dies, and you see a big grey, turning brown, then turning black, and often staying that way for a long time. The bees seem quite happy with them for a while.

For the very reason described, when choosing a cell to leave when there are a few to choose from, we never select one drawn either on or adjacent to areas of drone brood.

Just a note of thanks to ITLD - I learn much on this forum, but rarely something I've never come across, usually adding to the sum of knowledge.

Never heard of this - and even though it's common to a guy in ITLD's line of work - it was put across easily and with lot's of useful 'extra' info, like don't chose a Q Cell near drone brood and no hint of the patronising that can occasionally rear its head with the more experienced.

Thanks ITLD, you're advice is greatly appreciated.

Simon

 

[MuswellMetro]

Just a note of thanks to ITLD - I learn much on this forum, but rarely something I've never come across, usually adding to the sum of knowledge.

Never heard of this - and even though it's common to a guy in ITLD's line of work - it was put across easily and with lot's of useful 'extra' info, like don't chose a Q Cell near drone brood and no hint of the patronising that can occasionally rear its head with the more experienced.

Thanks ITLD, you're advice is greatly appreciated.

Simon