Aggressive swarm(s)

[Julian4983]

I've been really lucky to start my beekeeping life with two 'wild' swarms that I received in late May. Both swarms are doing well and putting down brood and honey and have nearly filled their brood boxes ... I'm delighted.

The only drawback is that these bees are really aggressive and despite smoking and cloth covering they seem determined to 'have a go' each week I open their boxes to inspect. It's really in contrast to my neighbours bees where both his native swarms and Italian imports are most docile.

Any suggestions ... we're thinking of a queen transplant from either of the neighbour's hives.

 

[Sutty]

Can you describe their behaviour more? Are they attacking you as soon as you open the hive or only once you have been working for a while? If the latter it could be something you are doing. Do they follow you far afterwards?
What are you eating/drinking before inspecting? (No pear drops! - see elsewhere) Have you washed your suit - particularly if you provoked lots of stings previously. Have other beekeepers examined and found the same? Are they being attacked by anything? eg ants, wasps, hornets.

 

[BugsInABox]

I've been really lucky to start my beekeeping life with two 'wild' swarms that I received in late May. Both swarms are doing well and putting down brood and honey and have nearly filled their brood boxes ... I'm delighted.

The only drawback is that these bees are really aggressive and despite smoking and cloth covering they seem determined to 'have a go' each week I open their boxes to inspect. It's really in contrast to my neighbours bees where both his native swarms and Italian imports are most docile.

Any suggestions ... we're thinking of a queen transplant from either of the neighbour's hives.

If both colonies are the same it could be that you’re not yet used to handling them well. People will tell you about slow gentle movements, noticing the guards looking at you etc but really it could take a couple of seasons to just get it. Meanwhile your bees are putting up with you.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Are you wearing dirty leather gloves?

 

[Julian4983]

Can you describe their behaviour more? Are they attacking you as soon as you open the hive or only once you have been working for a while? If the latter it could be something you are doing. Do they follow you far afterwards?
What are you eating/drinking before inspecting? (No pear drops! - see elsewhere) Have you washed your suit - particularly if you provoked lots of stings previously. Have other beekeepers examined and found the same? Are they being attacked by anything? eg ants, wasps, hornets.

I get one or two attacking immediately when I take the queen excluder off but then 10/15 once I take a frame out and then it’s fair constant from there on. I’ve tried working with smoke and without smoke but it doesn’t make much difference. My neighbour has noticed the behaviour as his bees are calm in comparison

I haven’t washed my suit since I caught the swarm so that’s something I’ll be doing today and for each visit. the suit and gloves have a noticeable amount of stings on them after each visit so that could be the cause.

I can’t see anything that’s attacking them but I’ll check again.

All good thoughts, thanks

 

[Julian4983]

Are you wearing dirty leather gloves?

They are new gloves this year and so they look fairly clean, I haven’t used them for anything else. one thought I had was whether the type of smoke I use could be a cause …. I’m using pine needles in the smoker??

 

[Julian4983]

If both colonies are the same it could be that you’re not yet used to handling them well. People will tell you about slow gentle movements, noticing the guards looking at you etc but really it could take a couple of seasons to just get it. Meanwhile your bees are putting up with you.

thanks and I’m hoping that if this i the cause that I learn quickly …. It’s difficult to be super calm with all that‘s going on!

 

[Julian4983]

Can you describe their behaviour more? Are they attacking you as soon as you open the hive or only once you have been working for a while? If the latter it could be something you are doing. Do they follow you far afterwards?
What are you eating/drinking before inspecting? (No pear drops! - see elsewhere) Have you washed your suit - particularly if you provoked lots of stings previously. Have other beekeepers examined and found the same? Are they being attacked by anything? eg ants, wasps, hornets.

They start attacking fairly soon after I open the hive but gets worse as I work through, I’m trying to be as gentle and calm as possible avoiding any squashed ladies as I work.

I usually open them up mid morning around 11am after a light cereal breakfast so i don’t feel its diet/smell. They do follow me after i step way but really only one or two are persistent after I’m more than 2 metre away or more.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

They are new gloves this year and so they look fairly clean, I haven’t used them for anything else. one thought I had was whether the type of smoke I use could be a cause …. I’m using pine needles in the smoker??

Trouble with leather gloves is, once they've been stung the alarm pheromone stays in the leather - by the sounds of it, yours will be reeking of the stuff.

 

[Erichalfbee]

They are new gloves this year and so they look fairly clean, I haven’t used them for anything else. one thought I had was whether the type of smoke I use could be a cause …. I’m using pine needles in the smoker??

One use with stings and they are no good. They also make your finger movements clumsy. Throw them away and use marigolds which can be washed after every use.
If you feel you really need the leather gloves put a pair of nitriles over them

 

[Erichalfbee]

Trouble with leather gloves is, once they've been stung the alarm pheromone stays in the leather - by the sounds of it, yours will be reeking of the stuff.

Snap

 

[Julian4983]

One use with stings and they are no good. They also make your finger movements clumsy. Throw them away and use marigolds which can be washed after every use.
If you feel you really need the leather gloves put a pair of nitriles over them

Thanks and I’ll wash and put nitriles over them. Will nitriles on their own prevent stings?

 

[user 819]

My bees are calm though I use two gloves as often the over glove gets proposed or sometimes tears. The main glove is cotton flocked nitrile similar in style to a marigold but with a loose cuff (never had a bee go in), on top a thin nitrile or latex glove and a bit of talc for easy fitting. If an over glove tears or gets to heavily propolised simply use another over glove. Two gloves for me as my hands sweat so easy to just change over glove if needed.

 

[user 819]

The thick leather gauntlets are pretty useless as one has little or no dexterity so can't feel the bees and if one is rough handling them, the thinner gloves do work as you can be more gentle at handling.

Handling is the first place I would look at and often glove type can make the difference, if after a change of glove type If the bees are the issue then you should re -queen, speak to your neighbour beek about possibly buying/requeening using one of his spare queens ?

 

[user 819]

Thanks and I’ll wash and put nitriles over them. Will nitriles on their own prevent stings?

No.
Doing so won't make any difference to dexterity and feel, with thinner gloves better handling should occur. Although I have never used it some recommend a drop of Albas oil on the out glove, but do get rid of the leather and use other types of gloves (two thin pairs).

 

[Sutty]

I suspect they will sting through the nitrile into a glove beneath it, so the glove will still be loaded with alarm pheromone.
The marigolds sound a good idea. I don't currently use gloves (though have some available), considering using nitriles due to propolis, but they are garden bees so I can wash hands between hives.

 

[philipm]

Could be your smoker dry pine needles burn well making the smoke too hot.Try something else ,search the forum its been discussed before.

 

[drdrday]

Although nitriles on their own don't stop stings from getting through they do help you to stop the stings. They're thin enough that you can feel the frantic buzz if you're accidentally starting to squash a bee, and do something about it before they sting you. Also means you can feel if there's one walking up your hand and again avoid squishing it.

 

[ericbeaumont]

gloves have a noticeable amount of stings on them after each visit so that could be the cause

Dirty leather, then; chuck'em and buy these.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks and I’ll wash and put nitriles over them. Will nitriles on their own prevent stings?

No but you get better at moving and handling the frames.
Go to marigolds first.