Aggressive Hive - Running Out of Options

[jimmybee]

don't kill them post them me ill take them off your hands,

 

[newportbuzz]

devide and conqour.

Smaller hives have less ability to mount an attack force so split the hive into nucs let each nuc mate their own queen cell.

Rob these nucs with no regard for their strength get them drawing comb make apideas from them etc this will keep them small and managebale .

When all the old bees are done and you have 2-4 mated nucs pick the best behaved of the lot and combine the rest to it.

bit late right now of course. retrospect is a pain.

 

[richardbees]

You lot keep talking about moving to the other side of the field/ waiting six weeks etc.

My hives are 12ft from the nearest kitchen window, 80ft from a block of 60 flats and 300 ft from a Primary School playground.....

 

[bignikki]

The clue should be in the name. Bee "Keepers"!
Surely not Bee "Killers"!

 

[kevrhcfag]

The clue should be in the name. Bee "Keepers"!
Surely not Bee "Killers"!

Thats fine in principal, but you wouldn't keep a dog that uncontrollable a danger to you or worse the public you would put it down. Why would you also take the risk of inflicting this trait on other innocent "beekeepers" through the drones, I doubt they would thank you for it, I know I certainly wouldn't.

 

[mbc]

Yes. Hadn't thought of that. So in the case of no queen at all, soapy water will be the best bet.



I will probably move them to the other side of the field in order to drain off the flyers.

Rae, I would hold fire on doing anything. The timeline suggests the problem is soon to sort itself out from themanipulations youve already achieved.
"just queen cells....4 weeks later"
All the time the virgin takes to hatch and mate (1 to 4 weeks)those fiery old bees arent ageing quickly at all, but as soon as she mates and her first eggs hatch then those old bees have to kick start their hypopharyngeal glands to produce brood food and they will age like hell and die off quickly as the new brood starts to hatch(4 to 7 weeks).
"But in the case of no 1, you will probably have lots of drones from psycho laying workers. Not a nice gift to the world. "
I cannot imagine drones from a laying worker ever outcompeting a healthy, well reared drone flying at the peak of his powers striving to have his oats with virgin queen. I imagine any inferior drones would be well to the rear of a drone "comet" if they manage to get up there at all.

 

[newportbuzz]

Thats fine in principal, but you wouldn't keep a dog that uncontrollable a danger to you or worse the public you would put it down. Why would you also take the risk of inflicting this trait on other innocent "beekeepers" through the drones, I doubt they would thank you for it, I know I certainly wouldn't.

an angry hive is dealable with. it does require some serious armour and a very isolated apairy and some cope on.
Rae has actually solved this hive its just a matter of time.

killing a hive because of anger issues is a bit lazy there is proberly someone in your local club who is capeable of dealing with them without undue danger to anyone.

bees should be killed for certain reasons. disease, danger to public.

 

[madasafish]

bees should be killed for certain reasons. disease, danger to public.

The OP said in his first post "they are something of a menace, if we inspect them, everyone on a nearby foot path is fair game. If they are rattled for any reason (e.g. inspecting the next door hive) we get followed back to the house."



Beekeepers with bees like that do beekeeping (and themselves) a disservice if the bees are left like that.

 

[Widdershins]

OP - do you use a manipulation cloth? Have you tried using water instead of smoke?

We really shouldnt be killing off our Bees - give them time, reading through your post, I believe that you have remedied the situation, and need to let the old 'stock' die out.

Failing that, dont kill them - there must be someone who is willing to take them off your hands.

 

[Phayze]

Sugar water spray instead of smoke made a big difference to my inspections the bees really hated the smoker but mine are nothing like yours sound but anything is worth a try it's got to be better than soapy water

 

[keith pierce]

i had a colony that was bad tempered and moved to an out apairy.Every few weeks i move it and put a good tempered mated nuc in its place. I just keep stripping the flying bees of it and am not too worried about honey production from that colony. I will have surplus mated queens next week and will split it down compleatly into nucs.

 

[peteinwilts]

I would be most interested to know if all those suggesting destroying the bees are urban beekeepers, and those suggesting saving them are rural.

I fully appreciate an urban environment may not be safe for taming 'wild' bees and may be a hazard to the public... it does not mean a rural beekeeper should not try if he\she wishes.

If an urban beekeeper has some unpleasant bees, it should not necesarily mean they should reach for the petrol can where rural beekeepers would be happy to give them a try.

Actually it’s probably even more dangerous in a remote situation, as anyone who did get hit by these bees would be very unlikely to be found anytime soon.

MORE dangerous in a remote location!

In my location, they are a challenge, or frustrating at worst. They are well away from anyone or anything. They harrass if within 20m, but as the bees are over 500m from anything (a farm track still on our land), I can't see the problem.

 

[newportbuzz]

im fairly rural.

 

[Poly Hive]

Part of the divide here is that some have not yet encountered really nasty bees. Oh yes they exist. Seriously nasty colonies will:

Cover you in stinging bees. To the extent your hat comes down and your head gets stung as do your ears. You have to lift it and shake. The veil gets difficult to see through from the bees trying to get at your eyes, and the stench of the venom is very apparent, like bitter almonds.

Your gloves will be covered, and the hand with the hive tool will be covered in stings.

They will attempt to get inside your clothes with extraordinary persistence.

They will pursue you back to the car, and chase the car hundreds of yards, more they will greet the car on arrival.

That dear reader is a nasty hive. Not one that gives a half dozen stings a visit.

However what is acceptable in a neighbour situation and what is acceptable in an out apiary are two completely different things and even the most vicious hive in my experience is transformed by a better queen.

PH

 

[thepliedes]

Absolute agreement with this. It could be to do with how we as beekeepers do the managing of a hive. I do not like the thought of giving up and giving over and petrolling them. It's a challenge but I wouldn't give up so much as learn from the situation and try as you are doing, to use different tactics.

 

[merylvingien]

I would be most interested to know if all those suggesting destroying the bees are urban beekeepers, and those suggesting saving them are rural.

I fully appreciate an urban environment may not be safe for taming 'wild' bees and may be a hazard to the public... it does not mean a rural beekeeper should not try if he\she wishes.

If an urban beekeeper has some unpleasant bees, it should not necesarily mean they should reach for the petrol can where rural beekeepers would be happy to give them a try.



MORE dangerous in a remote location!

In my location, they are a challenge, or frustrating at worst. They are well away from anyone or anything. They harrass if within 20m, but as the bees are over 500m from anything (a farm track still on our land), I can't see the problem.

Read Poly Hive's post just below yours, this is what i am talking about. When you are dealing with bees with this temperment, then in my personal opinion they should be dealt with quickly. I do sometimes wonder if half the folk on this forum have really ever come across a severely aggressive colony? Worse than wasps...

In a remote enviroment it could be more dangerous as someone potentially could be severely attacked and overcome without hope of anyone finding them quickly.
All very well to say my bees are miles away from anyone.

People walk where they shouldnt.

 

[peteinwilts]

I also agree with PH.

last years worst hive harrass's at 20 yards whilst approaching them before opening the hive, and looked like a dalmation whilst opening.

I collected them from an Urban location in Southampton from a chap on the forum who was threatening them with a petrol can.
To deal with it, I divided the hive into three and combined them with NUC's.
None of the present hives are considered 'gentle', but are now good hardworking hives which are easily tollerable. I am happy.

Two years ago I did the same, and last year the main hive turned out to be my most productive hive by far.

I caught a huge and truely savage swarm late last year, which I am currently dealing with, and so far have only split them (The BKF member Freefall has met them!).
I do not have a problem with grumpy bees, and sometimes there is a reason for it (I had a very defensive hive that was being invaded with red ants. got rid of the ants, got rid of the temper)

The location of my grumpy hives are in a blind field, with thick set haw and bramble hedgerow and barbed wire around the field. The hives can be seen quite clearly down the hill at the opposite end by the entrance (36 acre rectangle). This is not a place 'someone' can go accidentally.

As PH rightly says, apiary situations are different, and just because someone cannot tollerate grumpy bees in their back garden, does not mean someone else is not in the position to tame them. (and I enjoy the challenge!)
Everyone should think of their location carefully, and hives often turn grumpy for periods for genuine reasons (wasps, ants, old queen etc).
I do not believe that it is a good message to send for new beekeepers and lurking preservationists, that experienced beekeepers reach for the petrol can JUST because they are not cute and cuddly as they would like them to be....

 

[newportbuzz]

similar situation to this. the first monster was united with a nuc and all of their comb was shared out around other weaker hives where the bit of anger wont be a huge problem.(culled the drone comb)

The second one i am currently helping a friend dealing with.
To put them in context they swarmed and this is how i found out about them.
The swarm was evil. i took about a dozen stings from them(the swarmed at about 1pm i was there at 2.30 max). which i though was very unusual.

So i armoured up to go and deal with the parent hive for the fella. So this hive is already weakened by the swarm and they still put out a very respectable defense system.
We split before us and as it stands most of the splits are on a farm. i am currrently mating queens to put into nucs to requeen the lot. Was unable to requeen there and then as didnt have the nucs or queens or cells to do it.

 

[richardbees]

I do not believe that it is a good message to send for new beekeepers and lurking preservationists, that experienced beekeepers reach for the petrol can JUST because they are not cute and cuddly as they would like them to be....

Pete,

You're still thinking in terms of Rural beekeeping....barbed wire is probably illegal in London Borough of Lambeth where I am!

Urban Beekeeping is tolerated because there are no regular incidences of neighbours / passers-by being stung.

I've (so far) only had to kill one colony of bees in over twenty years.

 

[newportbuzz]

I do not believe that it is a good message to send for new beekeepers and lurking preservationists, that experienced beekeepers reach for the petrol can JUST because they are not cute and cuddly as they would like them to be....

Pete,

You're still thinking in terms of Rural beekeeping....barbed wire is probably illegal in London Borough of Lambeth where I am!

Urban Beekeeping is tolerated because there are no regular incidences of neighbours / passers-by being stung.

I've (so far) only had to kill one colony of bees in over twenty years.

Could you not have dealt with the colony by giving it to a rural beekeeper for them to requeen and deal with??