Aggressive bees and a reclusive queen

[Angularity]

My most (only) productive colony is becoming aggressive. I looked at them today and large numbers of them were sitting on the frames pointing their rears in the air, stings exposed. Last time i inspected them I ran away screaming like a little girl, so I suppose it's an improvement.

HM is a F1/F2 from a bought-in Buckfast, so no real surprises I suppose. She is so reclusive I have never seen her, or her mother.

Is there any way I can re-queen without finding the old queen?

I have gone through the various ways I am aware of to find the Queen, like pairing up the frames, but without success. She is very cunning.

 

[Poly Hive]

When you say pairing did you use the three sets of two and leave for half an hour?

PH

 

[Beefriendly]

Grit your teeth and add an extra brood box above the floor with 2 frames of anything you like. Shake all the bees into this box, add queen excluder. Queen is now in bottom box and you will almost certainly find her between the 2 frames you have added...that is about 24 hours later. If too aggressive just move bottom box with bad queen away.

And when are people going to realise that the aggression is nowt to do with the Buckfast/ Italian bees etc, but rather from the drones of the local bees any queens you rear have mated with.
You are diluting your bought in queens genes with local genes every-time you breed....hence an f2 has about 75% local bee genes. It is no longer a Buckfast/Italian queen it is now, predominantly, a mongrel bee.

 

[enrico]

The most important thing is to make sure you are bomb proof. Two or three layers of everything. If you CAN'T get stung then your confidence will go up loads. There are ways to find the queen but the easiest way to get fewer bees to look at is simply to move the hive six feet away on a sunny day when they are flying. Put a new box on the old site and wait for a day. Your stroppy old best will now be in the new box. Find the queen in the old box by whatever method works for you and then recombine. My query is how you are you going to requeen at this time e of the year!
E

 

[Swarm]

The most important thing is to make sure you are bomb proof. Two or three layers of everything. If you CAN'T get stung then your confidence will go up loads. There are ways to find the queen but the easiest way to get fewer bees to look at is simply to move the hive six feet away on a sunny day when they are flying. Put a new box on the old site and wait for a day. Your stroppy old best will now be in the new box. Find the queen in the old box by whatever method works for you and then recombine. My query is how you are you going to requeen at this time e of the year!
E

My thoughts as well Enrico. When was all this manipulation carried out?

 

[For want of a better word]

Chuck the whole lot on the grass in front of the hive... all the bees.
Put a bit of queen excluder over the entrance and let the bees run in.
The queen may be in a pile of bees in front of the hive... but not inside!

Squidge her.

Buy a new Buckfast queen for your colony and introduce her in a press in cage on emerging brood ( after checking and destroying any queen cells of course)... pain in the tookas ... but only way to retain your pure Buckfast strain if you allow them to open mate in an area predominately populated by the native Amm.

Possibly may have to give it a month befor attempting this!

Chons da

 

[MartinL]

pointing their rears in the air, stings exposed.

Are you sure they weren't fanning? Perhaps she is already lost? ?

 

[Angularity]

Thanks all, I have an overwintered queen on order for the end of April, so I will leave her to it till then. I did all the frame pairing last year, I haven't done anything that invasive this year, I was just checking if they needed another super, as they were going mad and the one on there already was nearly full a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Millet]

I killed two small drone laying Queens last year that could get through the excluder..the best way i found to find these Queens was place two empty brood boxes on upside down roofs 6ft away and stick six frames in one box and five in the other..shake and brush all the remaining bees out of the original box into one of the temporary boxes and then put the empty box back on the original floor..then slide half of the frames to either side of the brood boxes and stick a crown board on each of the hives..if the crown boards have no holes in them leave a small gap for the bees to exit..
Leave them for half hour and then methodically go over each frame slowly it may take a while but if you can spot Queens you will see her in the end..and don't forget to look for them long brown legs...that is the only way i found my tiny Queens as they where the same size as workers but with longer back legs..if you do spot her do not take your eye of her and dispatch her ASAP..

Just for the record all of this was done at the back end of July..

 

[Millet]

? ?

Mine do it now and again even the gentle bees when opening up in the cold to check fondant levels..

 

[Angularity]

Are you sure they weren't fanning? Perhaps she is already lost? ?

No, not fanning, they weren't using their wings and their Nasonov glands weren't exposed. Stings ere definitely out, some even had some drops on the end. It was one of those 'Ooh, I wonder what that is' moments. A bit like a pilot watching an approaching flock of seagulls.

 

[philipm]

I think its still too early to be opening up hives it may be the reason they got p*ssed off,leave them alone for a few more weeks then when it's warm enough if they are stroppy replace the queen.You will probably need some thick clothing under your bee suit as they won't be happy when you start trying to separate the queen out.