Advice Re Fitting frame runners in Brood and Supers

[Wilf007]

This is my first post for help. I am currently building 2 x Nationals, the instructions are not the best I have ever used !! My question is where to fix the runners for the frames. I have attached some photos if someone could I advise

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

they should go on the inward facing face of the side panel (the nearest face to the frame sidebars), you then, before fixing the side panels push them them up so that the top edge of the frame top bars are flush with the top edge of the side rails (if you are working bottom beespace.), castellated spacers the same - but take note I use the chamfered Maisemore supers
e, I

 

[Wilf007]

Hi could you look at my images and tell me which one is the one ? mine are Nationals

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So are mine - I don't understand what you mean.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Have a look at Thorne videos. It suggests marking the top of the runners at 12.5mm (or 7/16" = 11mm). Thickness of frame lugs is 10mm (?) I'd set the runner 11mm down from top.

 

[Wilf007]

So are mine - I don't understand what you mean.

sorry for the confusion i think my first image is correct, is this right

So are mine - I don't understand what you mean.

 

[Wilf007]

Have a look at Thorne videos. It suggests marking the top of the runners at 12.5mm (or 7/16" = 11mm). Thickness of frame lugs is 10mm (?) I'd set the runner 11mm down from top.

having a look now

 

[Wilco]

sorry for the confusion i think my first image is correct, is this right

See JBMs first and last images.

 

[Wilf007]

The video has made it pretty clear I will see how we get on tomorrow

 

[ericbeaumont]

my first image is correct, is this right

Not quite.

Top bars on bottom beespace boxes should sit flush with the top rim of the box, and yours sit below. You have in effect (given that the space bees will not fill is 8mm) 5mm bottom beespace and 3mm top beespace.

The consequence of this mixture is that bees will fill both spaces, esp. that top 3mm.

You have been seduced into believing that the runner edge should sit on the timber. Not always so, especially if the boards have been assembled casually. A way to solve this is to lay a top bar on the runners, move a runner end until the top bar is flush, and then nail the runner. Work from all four runner ends first, to ensure even fixing.

Your runners are also in the wrong place, and should be nailed to the box wall. To obtain even beespace in the box recess that ledge should be level, not stepped as you have it. Maybe the Thorne vid will put you right (got to sleep, mkt tomorrow).

Maisemore supply the most accurate runners, those that give beespace under the top bar lugs.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

sorry for the confusion i think my first image is correct, is this right

no, the runner should be on the far left of the side panel, between the wood and the frame. and not wedged into the crack between the side panel and top side rail

 

[Swarm]

To obtain even beespace in the box recess that ledge should be level, not stepped as you have it.

Spot on, as stepped the way they are will also compromise the bee space below the wall panel. When constructed, there should be a level ledge on both top and bottom of the box. The top rail has a double beespace recess and the bottom rail has a single beespace recess. The double space on top is to allow frame runners to be fitted, the single space at the bottom is to provide a beespace gap between top bars and bottom bars of the frames when boxes are stacked.

 

[enrico]

Spot on, as stepped the way they are will also compromise the bee space below the wall panel. When constructed, there should be a level ledge on both top and bottom of the box. The top rail has a double beespace recess and the bottom rail has a single beespace recess. The double space on top is to allow frame runners to be fitted, the single space at the bottom is to provide a beespace gap between top bars and bottom bars of the frames when boxes are stacked.

Exactly. You have placed the side walls too low in relation to the end walls. I hope you haven't fixed them yet. The reason the side walls stand high is to allow room between the frames below and the box above.
I wish I was there to come and guide you

 

[Wilf007]

Thanks for all advice have not secured anything yet , just fitted together

 

[Wilf007]

Hi all
Watched the videos and I hope this is correct all frames are flush with the top. I take it there is bee space at the bottom and to the sides.

 

[enrico]

Hi all
Watched the videos and I hope this is correct all frames are flush with the top. I take it there is bee space at the bottom and to the sides.

That looks better. When you get round to making the frames make sure you fix the bottom two rails with the pin going in from the bottom. If you put it in through the side it becomes almost impossible to renew the wax.

 

[Wilf007]

That looks better. When you get round to making the frames make sure you fix the bottom two rails with the pin going in from the bottom. If you put it in through the side it becomes almost impossible to renew the wax.

Thanks for the advice. I think once you have put one of these together you should have no problems

 

[Wilf007]

Moving onto the frames now, the nails securing the bottom bars are a pain!! now have a sore thumb

 

[Sutty]

Moving onto the frames now, the nails securing the bottom bars are a pain!! now have a sore thumb

Get a nail gun, you won't regret it.

 

[ericbeaumont]

nails securing the bottom bars

Are you really using nails? 20mm gimp pins are easy and you should be able to put in 100 an hour without stress. There are cheap sorts out there that are useless, so buy Challenge 20mm gimp pins - the best - and use no bigger than a 4oz cross pein hammer.