Advice on swarm cells

[Bitbybit]

I am new to beekeeping. I purchased two nucs about a month ago. One nuc seems to be doing much better than the other building up stores. I have found the queen in this hive during inspections and all looks well. I have now opened the other hive three times and have yet to spot the queen (this could easily be down to inexperience) this hive is busy enough but has not got the same levels of stores. Today I noticed an open queen cell in the middle of the comb- is this a sign that the queen is failing?, not mated properly? or other what should I do?

 

[Lorenz]

You will get better advice if we knew whether there was eggs, unsealed and sealed brood and how much of each. A dry queen cell is nothing to worry about. 3 or fewer charged (wet, full of creamy brood food) queens cells are nothing to worry about either.

 

[Bitbybit]

thanks

Thank you Lorenz, I'll take a closer look regarding eggs next time I open. It is great to get information for experienced beekeepers. Having a hive is like being Dad to thousands of children!!!

 

[enrico]

Queens are illusive. Learn to spot eggs. They are easy to see if you get light right behind you. Once you have seen eggs you will know what you are looking for. If you have eggs you know the queen has been there in the last three days, you can tell by what the eggs look like as to how old they are, one two or three days. Have you put your nucs in full size hives? Good luck
E

 

[masterBK]

So Enrico how can you tell how old the eggs are because I can't ? You are not going to quote that long disproved "myth" about the angle changing every day are you?

If you observe specific eggs at regular intervals in a comb in an observation hive you will find that they don't look any different until the third day when, just before they hatch, they sag somewhat in the middle and end up completely on the bottom of the cell. Some (on the periphery of the brood nest) hatch later than others (those in the middle of the brood nest) and presumably this is all about slight temperature differences in their immediate environment.

 

[Lorenz]

I liked enrico's advice. Yes of course we do all need to learn to find queens eventually masterBK, but for newbies there if often excessive and unnecessary hand wringing and self recrimination if they can't find queens. The priority is to be able to spot eggs.

 

[enrico]

So Enrico how can you tell how old the eggs are because I can't ? You are not going to quote that long disproved "myth" about the angle changing every day are you?

If you observe specific eggs at regular intervals in a comb in an observation hive you will find that they don't look any different until the third day when, just before they hatch, they sag somewhat in the middle and end up completely on the bottom of the cell. Some (on the periphery of the brood nest) hatch later than others (those in the middle of the brood nest) and presumably this is all about slight temperature differences in their immediate environment.

I would never argue with you. You obviously think/know you are right. I was just offering advice through my own experience.....since joining this forum I have had many myths shattered that I have believed/worked with for the past thirty years. I am never going to be too old or experienced to learn, please tell me where you have gained this knowledge and I will file it away for future reference. As I have always said, sorry if I give bad advice, I don't read many books I just keep bees the way that works best for me. If it helps others then goody! If I am wrong, I am sorry! Thanks for pointing out the error of my ways( maybe!)

 

[masterBK]

Enrico : You are basically right in your advice a beekeeper should always look for eggs . All I was pointing out is that you can't really tell how old the eggs are. If you don't have access to a observation hive, find a patch of eggs in a comb in a nucleus and have a look at them morning and evening for the next few days and discover the truth for yourself.

If the queen had "disappeared" from a full colony in the last couple of days for whatever reason (crushed by the beekeeper or fallen off a comb into the vegetation etc during manipulation) eggs would obviously still be there but you should be able to detect the change from their normal response to you opening the hive with that of queenless behaviour (roaring, more aggressive and not so calm on the comb) and they may have even started emergency Q cell conversion on a few worker cells. It think it is important that all new beekeepers get the chance to handle a queenless colony so that they experience these changes in the behaviour that occur within an hour or so of the queen being removed.

 

[ratcatcher]

. It think it is important that all new beekeepers get the chance to handle a queenless colony so that they experience these changes in the behaviour that occur within an hour or so of the queen being removed.

I collected my first cast swarm back in the end of june, which I later found to be queenless, in all the inspections I did, or whilst sitting 2ft away videoing them, they were always very dolcile bees, never turned aggressive, never stung, never a raised pitch in their buzz,

 

[masterBK]

I did mention a full colony. Small colonies eg nukes or castes are generally quite amenable (even when made queenless) and don't reveal their true nature til they are much larger (new beekeepers are often advised to start with nuclei so that hopefully their skills and confidence grow with the expansion of the colony so that they are able to manage a full colony later in the season)

I imagine that when you hived that cast it was indeed queenright (queenless castes tend to abscond) and the queen got "lost" on mating flight later on or got balled (bees are sometimes prone to balling young queens if beekeepers interfere with the colony before she has settled down to lay) so it may not have been queenless all that time.

 

[Bitbybit]

looking for eggs

Thanks for all the info, I have put the two nucs into two brood boxes. I think my difficulty was finding one of the queens easily and never seeing the other -as Lorenz said it led to a bit of hand wringing

 

[Poly Hive]

Small units can be highly aggressive if queenless.

Beeware.

PH

 

[drstitson]

you don't of course need to see eggs - the presence of young larvae at each inspection tells you that HM was present within the preceding week.

 

[itma]

I am new to beekeeping. ... Today I noticed an open queen cell in the middle of the comb- is this a sign that the queen is failing?, not mated properly? or other what should I do?

Use the forum's 'search' facility.
Look for -
welsh queen cells

I've posted the download link several times.
I only learned about this excellent (and free) booklet through this forum. Thanks again!