Advice Needed for Cut Out

[Lucky Bee]

I was rang by a lady last night who has honey running down her attic bedroom wall forming a large puddle on the floor and could I help.

I have managed to persuade a fellow association beekeeper to come and have a look with me tomorrow. This sounds like it is going to need to be cut out. My friend is very knowledgeable but quite elderly and not too agile. He doesn't sound that keen on actually doing the job and I can't blame him.

The lady said you can see where the bees are located through a gap so at least that is one problem solved. My questions are how do you cut a hole in plaster board and should I ring Steve and order one of his Bee Vacs or just cut out the comb/brood and tie it into frames. I told the lady that I wouldn't be insured for this kind of work and she was quite happy. I will of course get something in writing from her to say that she accepts all liabilities and costs of repair. I am really quite nervous about doing this, presumably I won't be able to use a smoker inside a very old mill house . . . any advice would be gratefully received. Hopefully I will have more knowledge of the situation after the visit tomorrow.

 

[daroco]

A bee vac will make it a lot easier and give you a chance of keeping a decent number of the bees alive. Be prepared to get very hot and sticky - they can be hard, messy work. And don't feel guilty about charging a reasonable amount for your time and effort.

 

[enrico]

It will take all day. You will need loads of large clean buckets. Some for dirty wax, some for recoverable honey. You will need washing water to keep washing honey off you, it will be dripping off everything. You need a bee vac to make it easy but if honey is runny be careful as bees will get covered in bee vac with honey and suffocate. You are taking on a huge task for someone who has never done a cut out and if your friend is not keen then.....I advise you to find a person who is keen. Once you have started the job you have to be there to the end.
I wish you all the luck in the world!
E

 

[Lucky Bee]

Oh gawd, thanks Enrico. I think I will have to find some help and will keep you posted.

 

[abm]

I'd advise 1 of steves vacs.

A valuable tool when dealing with this type of work, and usefull for swarm collecting etc.... you will be taking out a large proportion of flying bees in attack mode quite easily and sending to a nice secure box while you cut out.

i'd also advise a tarpaulin of some description, as it will get messy

Im for hire with all my gear.....

 

[steve007]

Thank you everyone yes im still making the vacs and Lucky bee as been in touch regarding one thank you
Its pretty hard work but well rewarding in the end

 

[Hawklord]

I was rang by a lady last night who has honey running down her attic bedroom wall forming a large puddle on the floor and could I help.

It must be a flow hive, tell her to turn the tap off.

 

[isc26]

I've used one of these ash can successfully before attached to a Henry vacuun http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/94913-duratool-d01958-ash-cleaner-20l.html , I only use it to mop up stragglers, the majority I remove on the combs and tie into frames. I use garden wire to tie the frames in as I've found the chew through elastic bands and then the combs quickly collapse in the new hive. Ideally the room can be sealed off while you do it, as above a bucket of water to wash sticky hand in is useful, a big box for combs allow up to half a day to do the job

 

[wessexmario]

My questions are how do you cut a hole in plaster board

Cutting holes in modern plasterboard is quite easy as it's very soft, anything like a sharp stanley knife will work fine. Just draw the blade gently along the board using deeper and deeper cuts until you break through. Do be careful if anywhere near light switches or power sockets as cables may be behind the board. Turn the power off first if in doubt.
If you can see where the lines of nail heads are holding the plasterboard up, then make the hole in the center between them to avoid the wood or metal battens holding it up.

Repairing it afterwards is also relatively simple job, the size of the hole makes little difference to the ease of repair, having clean straight edges will make repair easier (whether you or someone else, you don't want them cursing you after!) so you could use a rule to draw the blade along to start the cut, and make a rectangular hole as big as you need to get the bees and comb out. Dividing the rectangle into a number of smaller triangles can make getting each of the pieces out easier, as can first pushing them into the cavity rather than trying to initially pull them out.


ps. "inside a very old mill house"
Be prepared that the plasterboard may be layered over older lath and plaster, which may need something more substantial than a knife to cut through.

 

[Hachi]

I dont think you should attempt this. I'm sorry if its not what you want to hear. Cut outs are challenging even to the experienced and by your own admission you are lacking in this area.

Getting someone to sign that they accept all liabilities is not worth the paper it is written on. Also you cannot, no matter what anyone tells you, protect against claims of negligence against you (By your own admission you have no experience doing this type of recovery). This is one of the reasons why the BBKA will not insure you to do this type of hard work. Reparation and making good all that you remove can be very expensive if found liable.

Please listen to Enrico he is offering sound advice.

Best wishes

H

Is the old mill house protected or grade listed? Does the lady giving you permission have the authority to give you that permission? Is she the building owner?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I note the "varroa will kill it in a couple of years" or "it can't be there because varroa has killed it" voices are very quiet this year.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I told the lady that I wouldn't be insured for this kind of work and she was quite happy. I will of course get something in writing from her to say that she accepts all liabilities and costs of repair. I am really quite nervous about doing this, presumably I won't be able to use a smoker inside a very old mill house . . . any advice would be gratefully received. Hopefully I will have more knowledge of the situation after the visit tomorrow.

I agree with Hachi, think carefully before you agree to do anything. This will be a much bigger job than you imagine and could all end in tears, even though you're going in with the best intentions.

Tell the lady she needs to get a quote from a builder to make good any dismantling you may need to do, and make sure she has an agreement in place before you touch any part of the building. She may even need to get quotes via her insurance company, assuming she has one, and that can take a long time.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I was rang by a lady last night who has honey running down her attic bedroom wall forming a large puddle on the floor and could I help.

I have managed to persuade a fellow association beekeeper to come and have a look with me tomorrow. This sounds like it is going to need to be cut out. My friend is very knowledgeable but quite elderly and not too agile. He doesn't sound that keen on actually doing the job and I can't blame him.

The lady said you can see where the bees are located through a gap so at least that is one problem solved. My questions are how do you cut a hole in plaster board and should I ring Steve and order one of his Bee Vacs or just cut out the comb/brood and tie it into frames. I told the lady that I wouldn't be insured for this kind of work and she was quite happy. I will of course get something in writing from her to say that she accepts all liabilities and costs of repair. I am really quite nervous about doing this, presumably I won't be able to use a smoker inside a very old mill house . . . any advice would be gratefully received. Hopefully I will have more knowledge of the situation after the visit tomorrow.

The comb "should" be hanging off the surface above and if you're lucky the plasterboard will be just that, not lath and plaster.
Plenty of visqueen sheet on the floor, plenty of buckets or a dustbin, an empty hive with empty frames and a knife to trim the comb. Elastic bands or some string to hold "wanted" brood comb into the frames. Best if you aren't in the building trade to get a builder to lead the job while you provide the bee handling facility. The builder will need a beesuit, wellies and gloves.
Get some ideas from J P the beeman on youtube.
Seal yourself in to the affected room while you work. Have a suitable working platform not rickety steps etc. An old bread saw will be handy for cutting the combs away from the surface above
It's going to be messy, hard work, but not rocket science.
I can't see that a bee vac should be required once the ceiling is down but it's your call.

Don't forget to beeproof the space after to avoid reinfestation.

 

[Lucky Bee]

I agree with Hachi, think carefully before you agree to do anything. This will be a much bigger job than you imagine and could all end in tears, even though you're going in with the best intentions.

Tell the lady she needs to get a quote from a builder to make good any dismantling you may need to do, and make sure she has an agreement in place before you touch any part of the building. She may even need to get quotes via her insurance company, assuming she has one, and that can take a long time.

There in lies the dilema. My telephone number is the one listed on the BBKA website for our area. Probably because I am secretary of our association. I feel an obligation to at least try to help and therefore build a good reputation for the association and beekeepers in general. The lady has already contacted pest control, they don't want to know about it because of the risk of other bees robbing out honey that has been contaminated with poison and taking that back to their colonies. They don't want to be sued. Her builder has advised her that it will need cutting out so I might have a willing sole there if I dress him up properly. I will approach this sensibly and speak candidly to the home owner before doing anything. We live in such a litigious society now I will tread carefully.

I really appreciate all the advice. I am going to have a look at the site this afternoon and hopefully will be bit clearer then.

 

[Lucky Bee]

I have just been to the house. It was just possible to get into the loft area to see what we need to contend with. Sadly it looks as though the comb has fallen off the end wall under the weight of honey and drowned most of the bees. There were hardly any live bees. It is very inaccessible from the very small loft space but the owner of the house is an ex beekeeper and he wants to cut out his ceiling himself. I have also recruited extra help so we will just clear it all out and block up the holes.

Thanks again everyone for your input.

 

[enrico]

Might get some nice honey!
E

 

[busybee53]

Keep us posted as to how it goes.

I note the voices saying this type of cut out is hard work and not to attempt it unless you know what you are doing. Not stuff you learn unless someone who does know what they are doing invites a less experienced beek along as a helper.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Good luck with it. I hope you get the chance to take some photos.