Aborted Swarm - what next

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I did the listening test twice this morning from beside the brood box and from the rear of the underfloor entrance

Well, if you've got the time to waste I suppose.......................
But were you holding your magic stones whilst doing it?

 

[Cussword]

Well, if you've got the time to waste I suppose.......................
But were you holding your magic stones whilst doing it?

My wife says my stones are magic.
Especially since they were disconnected from the mains.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Well, if you've got the time to waste I suppose.......................
But were you holding your magic stones whilst doing it?

Yes, thanks for that - it was very helpful.

CVB

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Yes, thanks for that - it was very helpful.

CVB

Prtobably more helpful than spending your time on your knees with your ear against the brood box listening for some loony tunes

 

[busybee53]

Prtobably more helpful than spending your time on your knees with your ear against the brood box listening for some loony tunes

There were definitely loony tunes coming from one of my hives once. Never did find out what it was. It did not sound like tooting, piping or quacking - yes I played youtube to check. It was a musical note which continued a long time but kept rising and falling. Very strange. It went on long enough for me to check thoroughly around that hive and the others. The noise was from inside the brood box and no I had not had any magic mushrooms.

 

[beeno]

I see we've stepped into the matrix again

It is voluntary. If you don't like it don't do it.

 

[beeno]

You've lost me, beeno
Can you explain?

But of course. Plastic QX cut into strip to cover entrance. I put a frame on three sides top and sides and plastic flush with floor at the bottom - no gaps around it. Gaffa tape it on securely. Swarm flies out and settle, she took 4 mins to appear on the QX. You can then put her in a nuc if you so wish and when all the bees pile back because queenie is not with them scoop some into nuc and they will start fanning at the nuc entrance and the rest is history as they say. Only problem is that you have to be there to manage it. If not, then you would never know it had happened.

 

[beeno]

Don't bother!
Look for QCs and release any/all the VQs.

'Springing' virgins (releasing all of them from their cells simultaneously) so that they seek and destroy the rivals, is a pretty well-established means of dealing with the emergency situation of having one or more virgins emerge during inspection.
It is very rare to end up with anything other than a single healthy survivor. And no casts. This deadly struggle is perfectly natural behaviour.

Of course, it would be better to 'harvest' VQs to mating nucs, but 'springing' is an effective trick in the specific situation of them being ready to emerge RIGHT NOW, and you being wholly unprepared for there being more than one. (Which also implies that it is getting you out of a hole you shouldn't really have been in ...)

Hi itma,
I don't think we really know the reasons why sometimes they fight to the 'last man standing' and at other times they don't. On this occasion they have clearly decided to swarm. Perhaps because it is a large colony and there is a flow on, so favourable conditions. We do know that workers keep queens in their cells to avoid fighting and to enable swarming, so it is in my book not that difficult to envisage that the bees can keep two virgins apart if they should so wish. The first virgin out in my nuc with five remaining QC 'won' (she was marked), but I hoped that I had made sure the nuc was in my book too small to swarm. However, this assertion does not account for all the tennis ball sized swarms I picked up last spring from swarm calls. I challenge anyone on the forum to put their hand up if they have never missed a QC!

 

[Obee1]

But of course. Plastic QX cut into strip to cover entrance. I put a frame on three sides top and sides and plastic flush with floor at the bottom - no gaps around it. Gaffa tape it on securely. Swarm flies out and settle, she took 4 mins to appear on the QX. You can then put her in a nuc if you so wish and when all the bees pile back because queenie is not with them scoop some into nuc and they will start fanning at the nuc entrance and the rest is history as they say. Only problem is that you have to be there to manage it. If not, then you would never know it had happened.

Think I'm missing something (my marbles probably) so queen gets stuck on the inside face of the QE. With drones too? And would other bees maybe get caught up in the bee traffic jam. Then once you have seen queen is there, through the QE, when you loosen your gaffer tape won't she instantly fly off?

Obee

 

[beeno]

Hi CVB,
Well, with that set up were you on your knees with the ear pressed against the hive side and how is your hearing? I am not confident that they would give up swarming once they are programmed to do it, which they have proved to us that they are. The QX has bee space under it - the queen would be able to get out from under it. If your listening skills are good and you really had your ear pressed against the hive, then maybe the deed has been done, but I am doubtful. Let us know what happens.

 

[beeno]

Think I'm missing something (my marbles probably) so queen gets stuck on the inside face of the QE. With drones too? And would other bees maybe get caught up in the bee traffic jam. Then once you have seen queen is there, through the QE, when you loosen your gaffer tape won't she instantly fly off?

Obee

Hi Obee,
There are not usually a lot of drones in a swarm. The traffic jam is getting back in. They are very efficient in getting out - that's why you rarely see them go, but queenie lags behind. She was too busy trying to get through QX with a few workers on this occasion, but I would recommend scalpel to cut gaffer tape or perhaps a couple of screws? Maybe I was lucky! Had nothing to lose apart from a swarm.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks for the explanation

Only problem is that you have to be there to manage it. If not, then you would never know it had happened.

That's where my problem might lie

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Hi CVB,
Well, with that set up were you on your knees with the ear pressed against the hive side and how is your hearing? I am not confident that they would give up swarming once they are programmed to do it, which they have proved to us that they are. The QX has bee space under it - the queen would be able to get out from under it. If your listening skills are good and you really had your ear pressed against the hive, then maybe the deed has been done, but I am doubtful. Let us know what happens.

The reason I checked for sounds twice was that I discovered after the first effort that my hearing aids were not switched on - doh! After the second effort with the hearing working properly I still did not hear anything but the weather was not good enough to open up and have a look-see.

Managed an inspection today. All of the QCs that were there had holes in their side, which I understand suggests that it has been torn down by the colony. Does this mean one of the virgin queens has come out as top-dog and will mate and start laying soon - there were no eggs in there today but there's still 4 frames of sealed brood to emerge. I'm hopeful that removing the QX and adding a further super has removed their interest in swarming. Is that hope likely to be dashed?

CVB

 

[beeno]

Hi CVB,
That sounds very hopeful, but you may not be out of the woods yet. However, all you can do now is wait for eggs. Good luck. Let us know what happens, very interesting indeed.