Abandoned hive

[Morgan968]

Hi everyone,

So then owner of the land who has let me put one of my hives on has given me permission to take over a hive which has been abbandoned and not open for well over a year.

Today I went and tried to do an inspection to see what I'm facing, there was 2 supers taped onto the brood box, after working through the first super which was mainly capped honey. I started into the second, once in the middle the frames were attached the the brood underneath which also had dronebrood and pupa which sadly was in the brace comb between.

I stopped the inspection here as I could see i need to replace both supers but still using most of the current capped honey until harvesting later in the year, but with regards to the brood box I'm unsure as you can see in the image there is the top section of the brood nest into the frames on the super, as I didnt make it into the brood as I didnt want to do any more damage before I had all the extra parts, I'm assuming the brood box must be full.

All my other hives run with 14x12 but I do have a spare standard size brood box, should I just get frames and foundation on the standard brood box and go double brood or put a spare 14x12 brood ontop of the current brood box and get them to transfer into here over the summer?

 

[Morgan968]

Sorry here is the picture of the frame
And looking down onto the brood box from where the frame came out

 

[pargyle]

Stick with the 14 x 12. I would go again and be prepared with a bread knife - two supers. a brood box, new floor, a stand, a queen excluder and a bucket.

Remove the top super and put it to one side. Remove the frames from the super with brood in it that don't have any brood in them shake the bees off them and put them in the new super- that will make space and lose some weight. Ease the super up (might have to lever it a bit) - cut the brace comb off at the bottom of the super frames put it in the bucket.

Move the existing hive to one side, put the new stand, floor and brood box on the site when the existing hive was.

Remove the existing brood frames, tidy up any brace comb and put them in the new brood box - any brace comb or wax cuttings go in the bucket - you might sacrifice some brood but that's inevitable. Don't worry that they are std national frames in a 14 x 12 the bees will just extend the bottom of them with free comb. You can work these out of the box over the rest of the season - or continue to use them - I have some frames like this in one of my hives - no big deal, once it has hardened off and been used it is pretty solid.

Now tackle the super frames with brood in them - shake the bees off them into the new brood box (you have to watch for a queen - if you see her and you can catch and mark her so much the better) put the brood frames into the new super. Queen excluder on the top of the new brood box, super with brood in it on top and second super on top.

Roof on, job done - you can replace any capped super frames with foundation and enjoy the honey crop when you are ready.

It's going to take a while so make sure you are well set up, booted and suited and you would be well advised to have a full smoker and water spray to hand - depends on what the bees are llke - a couple of bits of cloth to cover the exposed bits while you deal with others will keep some of the bees out of the air.

Good luck, I've done one like this - on my own - all went to plan except that when I lifted the super on top of the brood box .. it fell apart ... bees, frames and honey everywhere. Got through it but it was a bit of a beggar.

 

[Barbarian]

From the photos, it looks like fairly new gear.
I would try to confirm that it is an abandonded hive before working on it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

From the photos, it looks like fairly new gear.
I would try to confirm that it is an abandonded hive before working on it.

He has.
The chap whose land it’s on has confirmed it

 

[Morgan968]

From the photos, it looks like fairly new gear.
I would try to confirm that it is an abandonded hive before working on it.

The person who owns the land helped the previous owner to install it where it currently is, since then the guy has become unwell and wasnt able to return to manage/look after the bees so they've been left feral.

This is one hive which survived on it's own, there was another one in a different feild which sadly hadnt made it and was grown over by brambles!

The land owner has asked me to manage them along with putting a couple more hives up there.

Don't worry I wouldnt touch a random hive without any permission to do so

 

[Morgan968]

Stick with the 14 x 12. I would go again and be prepared with a bread knife - two supers. a brood box, new floor, a stand, a queen excluder and a bucket.

Remove the top super and put it to one side. Remove the frames from the super with brood in it that don't have any brood in them shake the bees off them and put them in the new super- that will make space and lose some weight. Ease the super up (might have to lever it a bit) - cut the brace comb off at the bottom of the super frames put it in the bucket.

Move the existing hive to one side, put the new stand, floor and brood box on the site when the existing hive was.

Remove the existing brood frames, tidy up any brace comb and put them in the new brood box - any brace comb or wax cuttings go in the bucket - you might sacrifice some brood but that's inevitable. Don't worry that they are std national frames in a 14 x 12 the bees will just extend the bottom of them with free comb. You can work these out of the box over the rest of the season - or continue to use them - I have some frames like this in one of my hives - no big deal, once it has hardened off and been used it is pretty solid.

Now tackle the super frames with brood in them - shake the bees off them into the new brood box (you have to watch for a queen - if you see her and you can catch and mark her so much the better) put the brood frames into the new super. Queen excluder on the top of the new brood box, super with brood in it on top and second super on top.

Roof on, job done - you can replace any capped super frames with foundation and enjoy the honey crop when you are ready.

It's going to take a while so make sure you are well set up, booted and suited and you would be well advised to have a full smoker and water spray to hand - depends on what the bees are llke - a couple of bits of cloth to cover the exposed bits while you deal with others will keep some of the bees out of the air.

Good luck, I've done one like this - on my own - all went to plan except that when I lifted the super on top of the brood box .. it fell apart ... bees, frames and honey everywhere. Got through it but it was a bit of a beggar.

Thank you for this advice, I've ordered all the new parts so once these turn up I'll get set up to rerun and hopefully manage to get the hive back to a working condition, hopefully it all works out ok

 

[Curley]

Also check for disease while following Phil's advice - particularly varroa if if hasn't been looked at for a year or more.

 

[For want of a better word]

Also check for disease while following Phil's advice - particularly varroa if if hasn't been looked at for a year or more.

If varroa levels are low... could be something very special!
Do an alcohol wash.
Chons da

 

[beeno]

Got yourself some nice early honey to sell there.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

or last season's ivy honey
Would be very wary of selling the honey until I was satisfied as to the colony's health

 

[Angry_Mob]

I haven't tried this but some thick fishing line might make the job easier, loop it around a few bits of wood to make a handle and just slice through the brace comb?

 

[pargyle]

Some really good additional advice on this thread.

Disease.
Varroa check.
Hang on to the honey until you are sure.
Could be a survivor colony.

All very good points ..

Good luck with it .. get someone to take photos and post them. It's not often you get the chance to do these sort of things and they are not something you find in the books. I wish I had taken some when I did the one I did but it was an urgent - 'get them out of my garden' situation before the pest controller was called and I had nobody to help me.

The house had been bought at auction and the garden was totally overgrown - the new owner didn't even know the hive was there until they had a look round after the purchase. I reckon it had not been inspected for years.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Some really good additional advice on this thread.

Disease.
Varroa check.
Hang on to the honey until you are sure.
Could be a survivor colony.

All very good points ..

Good luck with it .. get someone to take photos and post them. It's not often you get the chance to do these sort of things and they are not something you find in the books. I wish I had taken some when I did the one I did but it was an urgent - 'get them out of my garden' situation before the pest controller was called and I had nobody to help me.

The house had been bought at auction and the garden was totally overgrown - the new owner didn't even know the hive was there until they had a look round after the purchase. I reckon it had not been inspected for years.

Did you end up keeping them, Philip?

 

[pargyle]

Did you end up keeping them, Philip?

No .. I was going to but when I went to collect them a person from a few houses down the road (who already had a couple of hives in their garden) asked what I was doing with them and if they were for sale - I gave them away to him in return for a new set of Paynes kit to replace the stuff I had used. He was happy and it suited me better as I was near my apiary maximum and 'er indoors was muttering about how many more bees I needed.

I saw the chap that took them again at the Bees and Honey weekend the association runs last year and he said they were still going strong .. He didn't even know the bees were there until he saw me arrive in my bee kit to collect them ... They were a bit buzzy but not agressive and turned out to be nice and healthy apparently. He said he usually got a swarm in his garden and wondered where they came from ...

An old man had lived in the house and had been almost a total recluse before he died - kept himself to himself apparently. The new owner of the property got in touch with me via a relative of a work colleague who buys my honey - just as they were about to bulldoze the back garden. Hence the urgency as they were going to destroy the colony.

 

[Erichalfbee]

A good result then, Philip
What is it about free bees though?
I put out bait hives every year and I don’t want any more bees!!!!

 

[Newbeeneil]

I haven't tried this but some thick fishing line might make the job easier, loop it around a few bits of wood to make a handle and just slice through the brace comb?

I bought a cheese wire for exactly this when I had to separate two brood boxes that hadn't be looked at for years!

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

What a refreshing thread.
Excellent advice from Pargyle added to by others with no dissenting or snotty comments.

 

[Erichalfbee]

What a refreshing thread.
Excellent advice from Pargyle added to by others with no dissenting or snotty comments.

The whole forum is nicer.
Can you guess why?

 

[pargyle]

A good result then, Philip
What is it about free bees though?
I put out bait hives every year and I don’t want any more bees!!!!

I just can't say no, someone says 'free bees' and I'm there - it's a disease ...

I'm inclined to think it's going to be a swarmy season the way things are at present and I know what I'm like.

I've spent some of today painting two new Paynes brood boxes and floors I had forgotten about - I whipped them into the garage when they arrived still in the boxes they came in last year when Paynes sold off their 'seconds' and forgot I had not unpacked them - it's an age thing I think and perhaps an element of denial.

I'm planning on two splits from my existing hives and there will be swarms ... for once I should now have enough kit ...

I also modified another Paynes nuc I had in the workshop rafters to remove the feeder and make it a permanent 8 frame 14 x 12 nuc.

Trouble is 'er indoors appears to have learnt to count. There may be trouble ahead ...