A reason not to clip?

[susbees]

This season I have clipped all second year queens and (incoming) swarm queens once laying well. Based on the logic of not having the apiaries in the back garden and the appalling weather making checks a bit patchy, queen falls to earth, rest of the bees "saved" (and hopefully leaving with virgin queen averted as longer to get in and check).

Then at the weekend a well-respected beekeeper in our BKA (who also doesn't live by his bees) said he had never clipped in 40 years because a prime swarm led by an old (slimmed down but still unfit) queen would tend to cluster in or very near the apiary for a good while...

...whereas a big, strong swarm headed by a new, young, fit, unmated virgin queen (not the natural order of things due to the loss of a clipped queen) tended not to but shoot off into the deep, blue...ok grey...yonder straight away so less likely to be recoverable.

So, ITLD, PH, and other experienced beekeepers, thoughts on this?

 

[For want of a better word]

There must be a third way.... clip, not clip or ?


and it is not to clip one wing as that would be an unbalanced argument!

 

[Poly Hive]

It's a theory.

I knew a chap who supplied Fortnums no less, who kept 100 Glens in his back garden, and his swarm control was a branch on a tree that he said every swarm went to.

Not my idea of swarm control though so I clip as I am not in my apiary every day and whiles its not even every 10 days.

 

[Black Comb]

Well mine are very close to a large wood. True, they've tend to congregate on a local bush at first, but also sometimes on one of 2 very tall trees. Then off they go into the wood.
Pleased I clipped mine this year.

 

[itma]

It wouldn't be 'invariably' anyway.

And as anecdotal evidence I have personal experience of one large cast (swarm headed by a virgin) that went less than ten yards away and less than one metre up ...
Only an isolated experience, but enough to disprove there being any general rule, I'd say.

 

[Mike a]

IMHO: I don't see why mutilating a perfectly good queen is necessary if the bee keeper keeps up with regular inspections. If some how I do miss all the warning signs and they do manage to swarm then I'll go and collect them or hopefully they will swarm into one of my 3 bait hives, clipping imho is a bad practise handed down over the years for no other reason than what I would call lazy bee keeping.

The above is purely for hobbit bee keepers with less than say 20 hives and not commercial bee keepers with hundreds.

 

[Poly Hive]

Do hobbits keep bees?

Sorry but I cannot agree with sweeping statements like this.

Are hobbyists not allowed holidays, illness or work commitments.

Uh huh...

PH

 

[scuttlefish]

Do hobbits keep bees?

Yep - Apis florea...

Goblins keep wasps and gnomes keep bumble bees.

 

[Queens59]

I don't clip - I just feel 'urgh' about it...but if others want to fair enough...

 

[plumberman]

IMHO: I don't see why mutilating a perfectly good queen is necessary if the bee keeper keeps up with regular inspections. If some how I do miss all the warning signs and they do manage to swarm then I'll go and collect them or hopefully they will swarm into one of my 3 bait hives, clipping imho is a bad practise handed down over the years for no other reason than what I would call lazy bee keeping.

The above is purely for hobbit bee keepers with less than say 20 hives and not commercial bee keepers with hundreds.

Sorry, but totally disagree. I work hard to make sure that I inspect colonies and reduce swarming to a minimum. By clipping, however, I can minimise the impact of missing a queen cell or an inspection that for one reason or another was not made.

I equally don't buy the idea of mutilation either; a word that is chosen to create maximum emotive effect for something that if done properly causes very minimal impact on the queen.

Does that make me a lazy beekeeper?

 

[susbees]

Do hobbits keep bees?

Sorry but I cannot agree with sweeping statements like this.

Are hobbyists not allowed holidays, illness or work commitments.

Uh huh...

PH

....or continuous rain week after week...

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Summerslease]

I have clipped this year because it gives me more confidence to keep bees in an urban setting. I have been caught out by swarms for the past two years. Last year because of inexperience I couldn't find the queen to AS and they ended in a tree and garden next door. This year the weather caught me out. Bad weather prevented thorough inspections and then one warm day and they went to a tree two gardens away.

I want to keep bees without inconveniencing my neighbours and clipping helps. Also I only have a few colonies and don't want to lose any.

 

[Outlander]

I don’t like the thought of clipping but I would do it for the same reasons as Summerslease. I think it’s each to their own and if it’s something you decide to do then who am I or for that matter anyone else to ridicule you. Anyway who wants to come and do it for me.

 

[scuttlefish]

I don't clip but do make a point of inspecting every seven days in season, even if I need an umbrella to do so. Except for when I go on holiday, then I just bung on an extra super just in case...

 

[Beeforest]

I don't ring the pigs, I don't debeak the turkeys, I don't clip... well you get it.
It does sadden me that people do. It's up to them of course - legally but I do question the ethics of it and I can't help but lose a little respect for those that do.

Interesting that people have said that swarms often seem to rest in the same trees. I have found this also and I try to ensure management of these trees to ensure they have low branches with which to take the swarms. It reminds me of John Harding's theory of geopathic stress lines. Don't know if there is anything in it but it is interesting.

 

[REDWOOD]

I don't clip yet but having serious thoughts about doing it after all this rain.
beeforest what would be the most humane thing to do, clip your queen and bees swarm and the queen is lost, bees lost by clipping ONE. Bees swarm land in chimney council spray them bees lost from not clipping 25000 or more.

 

[Beeforest]

I don't clip yet but having serious thoughts about doing it after all this rain.
beeforest what would be the most humane thing to do, clip your queen and bees swarm and the queen is lost, bees lost by clipping ONE. Bees swarm land in chimney council spray them bees lost from not clipping 25000 or more.

Am I responsible for the actions of the council? This is but one of a number of scenarios and is formed from rather poor logic I'm afraid.
Glad you don't clip though. Why is that?

 

[Mike a]

Do hobbits keep bees?

Minor typo... Hobby... I guess hobbit keepers would struggle to take off stacks of supers.

Sorry but I cannot agree with sweeping statements like this.
Are hobbyists not allowed holidays, illness or work commitments.
Uh huh...
PH

Its not a sweeping statement PH, its basic bee keeping.
One of the things we all talk about is inspecting the hive before doing x,y or z.

Such as checking the following : -

amount free storage cells or part filled with nectar/pollen
amount of capped stores
amount of eggs, larvae, capped brood, drone brood, Queen Cells*, play cups*, brood pattern, cappings colour and or pin holes, wax moth, disease etc etc

* - bit of a give away or a warning to make most bee keepers double check

So no its not a sweeping statement its simply called inspecting your hives on a regular basis as per most of the bee keeping books and most of the people that offer advice on here and getting to know how prolific your queen is. Just by inspecting a hive for the basics most bee keepers should be able to tell if they are gearing up to swarm and if you are planning to go away on holiday for more than a week you could always ask a friend to keep an eye on them.

If a colony swarms then either the owner didn't inspect them properly and missed seeing any QC's or like this year failed to inspect due to the weather.

 

[REDWOOD]

Am I responsible for the actions of the council? This is but one of a number of scenarios and is formed from rather poor logic I'm afraid.
Glad you don't clip though. Why is that?

No need to clip queens before as I had a rest day at work every week so it gave me 2 days to choose when to inspect my bees but contracts changed and now rest day has gone i only have Sunday to inspect 2 out of three weeks, so I have to do 1 of 2 things, clip queens that will give me a larger window for inspections or give up beekeeping

 

[Beeforest]

No need to clip queens before as I had a rest day at work every week so it gave me 2 days to choose when to inspect my bees but contracts changed and now rest day has gone i only have Sunday to inspect 2 out of three weeks, so I have to do 1 of 2 things, clip queens that will give me a larger window for inspections or give up beekeeping

'Tis a shame my friend. Those bees don't fit into our our more complex modern lives. Best of luck with your decision.