A National-Dadant beehive ?

[Finman]

Interesting finman, this is one of the few times I've seen you defensive of your beekeeping methods and one of the few times JBM has agreed with you. Are you sure you don't want to at least throw a plug in the direction of producing high quality honey to keep JBM fuming?

The best flavored honey sells regardless of color. All else being equal, lighter flavored honey is preferred over darker honey with the exception of some specialty honey such as Buckwheat or honeydew aka "forest" honey. I had a woman purchasing honey by the case several years ago specifically because I bottled the darkest honey separate. She loved the flavor.

I will keep producing honey in light colored combs and you will keep extracting brood combs when they are full of honey. I hope your combs are full of honey and your rainfall abundant so the flowers keep yielding.

You do as you like.

i have just now a pasture unit, which has 200 hectares rape inside the radius of one mile. I put there 10 hives in different sites. Hives have 5-6 langstroth boxes. I have little bit hurry to add 2 foundation boxes more on each hive.

And I have other places too . 5 hectares rape/ hive and other natural plants pastures, if rape does not give honey
.
You know. I have dold honey in capital city 50 years. I have had always good flavoured honey, because I have pastures, where to situate hives.


My bees are not able to select light or dark nectar. they take all what they find.
Last two weeks bees have brought mostly honey dew. IT is high quality and dark.

 

[Little John]

Just popped in to provide some feedback for those people who may have shown a positive interest in this experiment, which has been hugely successful. We are now only in the first week of June, and yet the 'National-Dadant' Beehive is out-performing every other hive in the apiary, without exception. Indeed, an inspection last week showed that even this large-volume configuration is insufficient to cater for the size of colony which can result by giving bees more freedom to enlarge their size.

I used to think that Oscar Perone's ideas were crazy, but now I'm not so sure. Likewise, Spivak's recommendation to use triple-deep brood stacks in the northern states of America would seem to be very wise advice. And so it would appear that Charles Dadant knew a thing or two about the keeping of honey-bees.

There's just one caveat I would mention and that is the use of supers, which have been shown to be essential above such large brood nests, as a failure to use supers will result in storage of honey within brood combs which will, a) make them extremely heavy to lift, and b) make honey extraction difficult, if not impossible.

If it were not for that single consideration, then I'd immediately change all my hives over to this larger format - but I'm not a honey-farmer, and have no interest in supering.

That's it then, the experiment is concluded and I'm away now. My thanks to those who have been positive and supportive during my stay here.
LJ

 

[madasafish]

Gordon F. Townsend, Professor of Apiculture, Guelph University published in The Hive and the Honeybee.

Quote:
"Honey should, if at all possible, be produced in honey supers and not in brood combs. The use of brood combs for honey will increase pollen content of the honey, thus leading to problems when the honey is filtered. Honey stored in combs darkened by old pupa cases will tend to pick up some of the pigment and become darkened. This darkening takes place very rapidly when the moisture content of the honey is quite high. A sample of honey containing 50% moisture, as is common with nectar, stored over brood comb for three days increased in color from 35 mm to 112 mm on the pfund grader at normal hive temperature. Some samples became quite turbid from suspended insolubles. The best quality honey is produced in white super combs."

Remind me how much moisture is allowed in UK honey? 19%


The typical straw man argument.

 

[Fusion_power]

Don't know about the UK, but my target is 17% moisture. I find the flavor suffers if moisture level is any higher when extracted.

Little John, you are finding the same thing I am with the large size hives. The queen lays more and the colony gets larger. The result is a lot more honey.

 

[chffct]

I'm a complete beginner due to get my nuk this week. My problem will be that the frame size in the nuk is smaller than in the hive. I hope you can advise on how to transfer them all to the large frame size and avoid the problem of comb being built in the space below the smaller frames?

getting nervous!! but looking forward to getting my bees.

 

[Anduril]

I'm a complete beginner due to get my nuk this week. My problem will be that the frame size in the nuk is smaller than in the hive. I hope you can advise on how to transfer them all to the large frame size and avoid the problem of comb being built in the space below the smaller frames?

getting nervous!! but looking forward to getting my bees.

You could attach these: Burnett 14" X 12" Frame Extension Pack - 10, otherwise build up a block underneath the frames using celotex and aluminium tape. Then as the bees expand place the standard frames between the 14x12's, once they are drawn out, then remove the standard frames, slowly, by placing them at the end of the beehaus and when not in use for raising brood.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm a complete beginner due to get my nuk this week. My problem will be that the frame size in the nuk is smaller than in the hive. I hope you can advise on how to transfer them all to the large frame size and avoid the problem of comb being built in the space below the smaller frames?

getting nervous!! but looking forward to getting my bees.

Just don't worry about it - transfer nuc as per usual into a 14x12 hive, leave the bees extend downwards on the standard deep frames, work these frames towards the edge once they have drawn all the frames. when the cluster begins to reduce, or in spring before the colony expands, remove the empty deep frames and replace with jumbos.
Beekeeping is a simple craft that some love to over complicate

 

[Finman]

Don't know about the UK, but my target is 17% moisture. I find the flavor suffers if moisture level is any higher when extracted.
.

How can it bee target?

Bees cap the honey when they cap. You cannot tell to them any targets.

Flavour is mixture from different plants. You cannot select, where the bees get their loads. Sometimes from there and sometimes from there. 3 years ago mere honeydew.

 

[Finman]

Quote:
"Honey should, if at all possible, be produced in honey supers and not in brood combs. The use of brood combs for honey will increase pollen content of the honey, thus leading to problems when the honey is filtered.

Remind me how much moisture is allowed in UK honey? 19%


The typical straw man argument.

Rule invent by himself. Based on non practical beekeeping.

If at all possible... a strange if.

Our professionals keep double brood, that the queen has maximum laying. Then they reduce brooding to one langstroth at the beginning of main yield. Surely they use thirf box, when they renew old combs and add a fpunfation box. Dark combs are lifted over the excluder.

And nectar is often ripened in brood celld
.

 

[Beefriendly]

Remind me how much moisture is allowed in UK honey? 19%
.

20% for most and 23% for heather.

 

[Fusion_power]

How can it bee target?

I live in a much warmer climate which means the bees can and will produce thicker honey down to the 17 percent moisture range. In some desert areas, honey can go down to 14 percent. The advantage of thicker honey is that it does not ferment. Remind me finman, just how much honey your bees made last year?

 

[TooBee...]

...Little John posted about doing something for his own edification and was met with varying levels of ridicule and derision. I met similar levels of sniping when I posted here, and to some extent on beesource, about converting to square Dadant depth "Brother Adam" hives. Have we lost the wonder and joy that comes from doing something different, especially when it comes to the bees we enjoy managing so much?

I clicked on this Thread quite excited to read about an experimental hive / modern twist on a tried and tested method... I didn't realise that it was an old Thread, it's very sad to see the ugly underside of this Forum come to the surface.

I would have thought that online Forums where the place to argue out (meaning debate politely) different ideas of hive modifications / designs (sometimes thought of as re-inventing the wheel - just because beeks have got used to square wheels doesn't mean ... ), building one's own hive is very enjoyable, I've built a Nuc, and will soon be finishing my first proper hive, basically a National; the next will have modifciations which I would love to discuss / debate, but I know what would happen if I started to suggest such crazy ideas...

I wish I was around in 2016 to jump in and enter this discussion, hope other tinkering members will continue to jump in, even if I am being a bit hypocritical in now no longer doing it much myself...