A hive on a Hive - any reason why not ?

[Andrewdale]

Hi All,

I have an established over wintered colony in cedar hive (my first ever started beekeeping last year) that is building up nicely. I have purchased a poly hive so I can kick off a 2nd hive, purchased the frames for the broodbox but stupidly did not buy any frames for the supers (2 came with the hive). If after my first inspection of 2013 planned for tomorrow they need more room is there any reason why I can't put the cedar hive on to the poly hive.( they are compatible)

Then once they have drawn the poly hive brood frames I was going to do an artificial swarm may/June time ?

My theory is it will speed up the bees put in the polyhive once split as the frames will have drawn foundation/comb and it will help it get established quicker once split.

It is like putting on a big super on I suppose ?

Your opinions would be appreciated
Thank you
Ps super frames are on order.

 

[Finman]

.
Do this way:

- when it is time to expand, put the foundation box under the brood box.
- let the hive grow as big as it grows and do not split it

- if it makes swarming cells, make a artificial swarm but join the hive parts 7 days later that you get honey.

- When hive has 4 boxes, make a nuc.
. you may try to get swarm too to get another hive.

as a first years beekeeper, try to learn what is normal life of beehive.

Don't invent your own styles. They are invented allready.

 

[poshpikey]

When you do an artificial swarm it will be fine to have the box on the original site as foundation. Also if you put a second box on top now it is probably too cold for them to draw and will just chill the hive below.

 

[For want of a better word]

All the above!

AND...
Buy another polly hive complete with waxed up foundation now... because ???when ??? the bees get going you will not know what has hit you... especially if you have explosive "buckfast" type bees... and get a couple of feeders and sugar in the stock cupboard too as will be needed soon after the first nectar flow ceases ... lots of hungry bees to feed!
Enjoy the roller coaster of beekeeping!!!
Good luck

 

[mbc]

.
Do this way:
- if it makes swarming cells, make a artificial swarm but join the hive parts 7 days later that you get honey.

This deserves expanding, why unite only seven days later ?

 

[Finman]

This deserves expanding, why unite only seven days later ?

The swarm part looses its swarming fever

and the brood part gets new queens. They clear the rest of queen cells.

5 or 7, makes no difference.

.

 

[mbc]

The swarm part looses its swarming fever

and the brood part gets new queens. They clear the rest of queen cells.

5 or 7, makes no difference.

.

Do you mean re-uniting the artificial swarm containing the old queen and most of the flying bees, with the brood and queen cells ? Interesting, does the old queen get killed ? does the population return to foraging before a new virgin mates ?

 

[enrico]

I would be REALLY surprised if they need that much room yet. It may look like a lot of bees but....... Only expand if all the frames in the first brood box are full/ nearly full of something!
E

 

[Finman]

Do you mean re-uniting the artificial swarm containing the old queen and most of the flying bees, with the brood and queen cells ? Interesting, does the old queen get killed ? does the population return to foraging before a new virgin mates ?

The idea in re-uniting is that the boath parts looses their abilyty to forage honey- Another has brood and young bees and another has no brood and it has bees which are soon too old to make homeworks.

Important is that old queen continues laying for main yield.

You get a virgin from brood hive, but it will not lay nearest 10 days.

1) So, the artificially swarmed hive looses its foraging power and it must be returned
2) queen continues making brood for main yield
3) you may take virgins from brood hive but put them into mating nuc
4) if you join hiveparts too early, they may get back the swarming fever


When a hive is able to forage, it must be rippen to that:

- it has enough foraging bees
- it has homebees which handle the nectar. make wax and nurse brood
- it has brood, from which hive gets all the time new home bees.
= brood and bees should be in balance.

Splitting a mature hive boath halves will lay so much that foraging energy goes to rearing new bees. It takes over month that those hives are in foraging condition.



It takes at least 6 weeks that normal hive will be rippen to get good yield.

Smaller hive spends its honey in rearing new bees and it will take 2 months that it will be in produvtive state.

-
When swarm hive is 3 weeks old, it has lost half of its bees. It cannot any more make surplus. It just keep brood warm and feed larvae.
When it gets new bees, it take 3 weeks more that new bees start to forage. 6 weeks = 1,5 months.