A bit of a dilemma

[enrico]

This year has been odd to say the least. At the moment my bees are in full swing with full brood box's. I am removing honey and jamming them down into brood box's to treat for varoa and they are not liking it at all. Some are swarming, there is nowhere for stores as the queen is laying at her normal early summer rate, I have to treat now to be able to feed in time for winter! Treatment is six weeks minimum. Goodness knows what I would do if balsam was present here! I have a feeling this is going to be the latest swarm year for many years!
Is anyone else treating yet?
E

 

[Swarm]

A bit early? The way mine are I'd have no hope of cramming them into a brood box. With Balsam present, I've found the best approach is to decide a cut off and then treat, they'll still be bringing it in but it's theirs and it's cheaper than sugar.

 

[BeeNice]

My bees are on the Lime and HB at the moment, I treat with one dose of treatment later on in the year and then OxAcid in the winter. For me this works and I don't have any trouble with varroa more than normal. Hopefully I will have enough honey for the bees to survive on without feeding. Check the varroa count and judge what needs to be done, you may find you have a very low count, don't just treat for the sake of it. Steven

 

[itma]

What are the varroa counts?
Unless they are high enough, why compromise the colony (and/or crop) for the sake of doing a heavy-duty treatment that isn't necessary?


That said, there are other treatments (maybe not so effective, but perfectly applicable to non-serious infestations) that can be applied without having to remove the supers, etc.

Drone culling at this time of the year shouldn't be a great loss, and preparations like VarroaGard can be used with crop supers in place.

 

[enrico]

The count is high enough to treat in the hives that I am treating, Those with a low count are not being treated and I don't have a problem with the treatment. I would normally do it as late as possible but I think I have been a little concerned about the cool weather here! thought I would get it on while we still had some warmth, hopefully I am tempting fate and we are now in for an Indian summer! Maybe you are right and I am a little early!
I usually dont have so many bees in the hive when treatment time comes!
E

 

[Skyhook]

I'm not surprised they don't like it, its the first chance they've had all year to lay down some stores! I would say your options are:

1) Leave it a bit longer

2) Take the honey off, then give empty supers and treat as brood-and-a-half. Let them keep the super for winter stores.

3) Check your counts- if there aren't too many mites, pass on the thymol and leave it until OA time. That frees up the schedule by 4-6 weeks.

Incidentally, I would have said treatment was 6 weeks maximum and then only if you haven't achieved your aims in 4 weeks.

.

 

[Cazza]

Unless your weather is very different to here, I think you have more time as yet. Well, at least a fortnight anyway.
Cazza

 

[poshpikey]

Last year I put the first tray of apiguard in in mid august. Then the second at the end of the month. I had a high varoa count the following spring because (I think) the late summer allowed the varoa to build back up after the treatment. This caused me problems! This year I am going to delay the apiguard a bit and will treat with OA in december/january.

My four hives have all got this year's queens in so I guess will carry on laying a bit later in the season. There is certainly no let up at the moment. I suppose I could hedge my bets by treating three colonies sooner and letting the really strong one have another week of foraging. They should be able to take any winter feed down a lot more quickly? Anyway there is wall to wall brood so nowhere for them to store in the BB at the moment.

 

[Finman]

This year has been odd to say the least. At the moment my bees are in full swing with full brood box's. I am removing honey and jamming them down into brood box's to treat for varoa and they are not liking it at all. Some are swarming, there is nowhere for stores as the queen is laying at her normal early summer rate, I have to treat now to be able to feed in time for winter! Treatment is six weeks minimum. Goodness knows what I would do if balsam was present here! I have a feeling this is going to be the latest swarm year for many years!
Is anyone else treating yet?
E

No one is treating yet.

Hallelujah!!!

I have still too much queens. From where I get a queenless hive????

.

 

[Finman]

The count is high enough!
E

Idea is to treat when you have extracted all honey. Not during yield.

How much yuo have extracted per hive?

 

[Sadders]

If you treat with a super on (leaving anything they bring in after treatment to them for the winter), will the frames and comb be tainted for future seasons?

 

[thepliedes]

Don't treat with a super on. Once you have extracted then treat with apiguard at this time of year. Put an eke on over the brood box to make room for apiguard tray. Leave two weeks and seal join with tape. Check and put in another tray. Leave for two weeks. This is the accepted varroa treatment for this time of year. THEN once treatments are over, put on your super again and get the hive ready for winter so there will be sufficient food stores i.e. brood box and 1 super. Honey is hygroscopic meaning that it readily absorbs moisture and scents from the atmosphere, even in rooms/kitchens let alone a semi-sealed hive. Cheers.

 

[Skyhook]

If you treat with a super on (leaving anything they bring in after treatment to them for the winter), will the frames and comb be tainted for future seasons?

I can't see it being a problem. Even if it does the amounts would be small, and naturally occurring thymol in trace amounts is one of the things that gives flavoursome honey (eg lime) its flavour.

 

[enrico]

I personally would never treat with supers on.....yuc

 

[Finman]

.
When I have treated hives in September with thymol , they stink still in April.

"Natural thyme honey"

 

[george]

The colony is probably huge at present and by taking the supers away they are going to be short of space .
Put a super back on so they have something to do and room to spare .Or double brood perhaps if you are determined to treat now .
I think Varroa treatment can wait for a week or two yet . It would be a shame to lose a swarm at this time of yr because they are cramped for space .
Everything is a couple of weeks behind and mine are still putting plenty in the supers . One or two have only just come back into lay in the last two weeks .
Weird yr.
G

 

[MandF]

If you treat with a super on (leaving anything they bring in after treatment to them for the winter), will the frames and comb be tainted for future seasons?

No, frames and comb not tainted at all.

Only thing "tainted" would be the honey they put in them, which you could feed back for winter, or enjoy the "natural thyme", as Finman put it, honey yourself.

I wonder if anyone has ever done a taste test with someone who didnt know, of "tainted" honey and normal honey?

I have said before, I am sure some people would choose and like thyme honey over normal stuff, and some would pay a premium!

 

[newbie]

I have a similar situation. In the next few weeks I want to apply apiguard on the colonies that need it. Is it too late to start treatment in September ? They have 1 super on each at the moment and it is not ripe and sealed. I intend to keep this for the bees to have for the winter (no extraction this year !)
I was planning to remove the super during the treatment period and then put it back afterwards. My question is that if I store the super for 4-6 weeks with unsealed honey in it will it go off ?.. and what's the best way to keep the wasps etc out (they seem to be hiding at the moment !)
The bees and I definitely don't want the supers tainted ! Thanks all

 

[tonybloke]

No, frames and comb not tainted at all.

Only thing "tainted" would be the honey they put in them, which you could feed back for winter, or enjoy the "natural thyme", as Finman put it, honey yourself.

I wonder if anyone has ever done a taste test with someone who didnt know, of "tainted" honey and normal honey?

I have said before, I am sure some people would choose and like thyme honey over normal stuff, and some would pay a premium!

my bees regularly build wild comb under the crown-board and store honey in it whilst I'm treating with apiguard.
so yes, someone has done a 'taste test', (it's bloody horrible)
a friend made mead with apiguard tainted honey, it also tasted horrible.

I've got about 4lb of the stuff, ready to feed back to my bees (the colony it came off of last yr) if you know anyone willing to pay a premium for it, please let me know, they can have it for 3 quid a pound

 

[REDWOOD]

HB now in full swing, blackberry still flowering, heath and ling just started, 14x12 broad boxes full of honey, wet supers still filling up, still removing supers and extracting, a bit early here for treating. try some varroa gard in the entrance to keep the count down