4 weeks later, super still untouched

[BernardBlack]

One of my hives (single Brood box) was almost full, with 8 or 9 frames full of Brood. Queen was laying brilliantly, so I put on a super.

4 weeks later, and the super hasn’t been touched. No foundation being drawn, nothing.

They aren’t making Queen cells, so they’re obviously not running out of space.


Was it too late in the season (mid July) to add the super?

Is the Queen already starting to lay less, now the days are getting shorter, and therefore the extra space isn’t needed?

 

[madasafish]

Weather poor? lots of gray days?

 

[The Poot]

What’s in the brood box now?

 

[ericbeaumont]

Was it too late in the season (mid July) to add the super

Yes.

In the absence of a strong flow (or big feed) bees are not keen to draw comb that late in the season.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Is the Queen already starting to lay less, now the days are getting shorter, and therefore the extra space isn’t needed?

Brood space is best given below the QX.

The colony reached it's peak without need of the super, because nectar income didn't exceed the needs of the nest below the QX.

Is the colony a recent upgrade? Did it swarm? Is the queen duff? A single box in mid-July suggests one of those three.

 

[enrico]

Try and think like they would! If you have the choice between drawn cells that are empty or undrawn cells that need to be drawn using precious stores to do so, which would you choose. At some point there will come a time when empty drawn frames are becoming less because either the queen is laying more or there is a large flow on... Or both. At that point it is worth their while using energy and stores to build out the undrawn foundation.

 

[Swarm]

I agree, if they've not swarmed there is something worth investigating, nosema cerana can peg a colony back so they seem to just tread water.

 

[BernardBlack]

What’s in the brood box now?

Similar to 4 weeks ago.

 

[BernardBlack]

Brood space is best given below the QX.

The colony reached it's peak without need of the super, because nectar income didn't exceed the needs of the nest below the QX.

Is the colony a recent upgrade? Did it swarm? Is the queen duff? A single box in mid-July suggests one of those three.

She was a 2021 Queen. She overwintered in a nuc. They weren’t a huge colony in spring, but they built up very well the last few months.

No swarms. Queen laying really well.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Queen laying really well.

Why the late build-up?

 

[Swarm]

I still think it's a health issue, what is the varroa level like, Bernard? I had a colony that was very small as late as May, about five frames of brood. I was a bit sentimental as they were one of the top performers last year and very, very nice bees. I vaped them and had zero drop 24hrs later. They had a pretty bad June gap to cope with and have built up, drawing out and filling a super and a deep.
Nosema C ... You find BIAS and bees doing their thing. But it looks the same every time you inspect and they don't seem to expand or achieve. If you don't have a microscope or access to one, as it's late and there is little chance of the expanding now, spraying the combs and bees with a thin, thymolised syrup will do no harm and might just help.

 

[BernardBlack]

Why the late build-up?

They had a bit of chalk Brood but as they built up, that has been mostly eradicated

 

[ericbeaumont]

They had a bit of chalk Brood but as they built up, that has been mostly eradicated

Chalk is either caused by damp or cool in the box, often in winter or spring, but the underlying cause is a genetic pre-disposition to chalk.

It will hold a colony back; usual recourse is to re-queen.

 

[Ian123]

They had a bit of chalk Brood but as they built up, that has been mostly eradicated

That’s the point they haven’t built up, an overwintered nuc should be a full sized colony. In fact many build faster and bigger than over wintered colonies. There’s obviously some issue!

 

[BernardBlack]

I still think it's a health issue, what is the varroa level like, Bernard? I had a colony that was very small as late as May, about five frames of brood. I was a bit sentimental as they were one of the top performers last year and very, very nice bees. I vaped them and had zero drop 24hrs later. They had a pretty bad June gap to cope with and have built up, drawing out and filling a super and a deep.
Nosema C ... You find BIAS and bees doing their thing. But it looks the same every time you inspect and they don't seem to expand or achieve. If you don't have a microscope or access to one, as it's late and there is little chance of the expanding now, spraying the combs and bees with a thin, thymolised syrup will do no harm and might just help.

Very low. Maybe 1 a day at the minute.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Very low. Maybe 1 a day at the minute.

No that's not a reliable indication
Do a sugar roll or alcohol wash

 

[ericbeaumont]

Very low.

Or assume that's it's high and act accordingly.

 

[BernardBlack]

No that's not a reliable indication
Do a sugar roll or alcohol wash

Zero varroa with sugar roll.