14 x 12 brood box size

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666bees 

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Just a quick question, width sizes for these 315 and 291?
 

Jim Lavie 

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I am new but an Eke for a 14X12 brood is 90mm, if I add this to the metric dimensions for a brood box 315 and 291 would be correct.
 

JCBrum 

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Just a quick question, width sizes for these 315 and 291?
Er, ............ ??? ........... waddya mean, - width ? ......


A 14"x12" BB is 460mm long, 460mm wide, and 315mm high,

- external dimensions.

JC
 

Russel 

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Er, ............ ??? ........... waddya mean, - width ? ......


A 14"x12" BB is 460mm long, 460mm wide, and 315mm high,

- external dimensions.
JC
Adjusting slightly for the thickness of timber used. 19/20/25mm ?
 

Hombre 

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Depth of brood box for 14x12 is 315mm. The box depth for all National sized boxes is nominally 10mm greater than the depth of the frame. In this case 304mm.

Here is your baseline.

Hope this answers the question authoritatively.

Clear now JC? - welcome back to posting.
 

Hombre 

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Internal dimensions (sorry) 424mm on the ends, along the rails and 372 on the sides, giving a total of 2 x 8mm (16mm) bee space between the frame sides and the wall of the box. Oh and 315mm deep.

External dimensions 460mm x 460mm x 315mm

Can I refer you to the recent posts outlining jigs and box construction by my good self. The pdfs give all the details.
 

broandy 

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Can I refer you to the recent posts outlining jigs and box construction by my good self. The pdfs give all the details.
Can you post link Hombre it save my legs that a gud boi. lol
 

Hombre 

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For you Bro Andy, the wurld.

And for those that really need it, here is a much simplified box with dimensions. Remember the frame width at 356mm is 16mm less than the box internal width and the top bar is 432mm.

Thank you Admin for your unceasing reference services.
Thanks also to Dave Cushman who's frame size web page I should actually put up as a wallpaper on one of my desktops.

PS if you expand the size of the drawing, then you will actually get the idea of what it takes to make a squiggly box circa 2009.
 

Jim Lavie 

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Though I am new I can do maths. David Cushmans sizes for the Brood Chamber for British Standard National Bee Hive are 460 length by 225 wide for Sides and 424 long by 201 wide front and back panels.
Though it says wide this is the depth and the smaller sized one is for frame and bottom beespace on his diagram. http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/natbrood.html

The 14X12 adss another 90mm to the width of the panels which is 315 and 291. At least I think so :)
 

JCBrum 

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Adjusting slightly for the thickness of timber used. 19/20/25mm ?
No, - those are the correct external dimensions to meet the British Standard as last published (except it was stated in imperial inches 18.125" :))

You are supposed to use the correct thickness of material to arrive at appropriate internal dimensions.

18mm or 20mm timber is ok, with rebated 44mm sq for the rails if you want to get all posh.

Otherwise just make it from 19mm (3/4") with two 12mm (1/2") thick strips for the rails.

JC.

p.s. Hombre's got it sorted.
 

Hombre 

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Though I am new I can do maths. David Cushmans sizes for the Brood Chamber for British Standard National Bee Hive are 460 length by 225 wide for Sides and 424 long by 201 wide front and back panels.
Though it says wide this is the depth and the smaller sized one is for frame and bottom beespace on his diagram. http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/natbrood.html

The 14X12 adss another 90mm to the width of the panels which is 315 and 291. At least I think so :)
Hello Jim,
I'm glad that you can do math and I can confirm that what you say is correct, but your point is actually lost on me ever so slightly. Maybe it's just as well that I don't make standard sized brood boxes. :) :)

You seem to be seeking to translate Dave's diagram to reflect a 412x12 box, but don't offer your audience the insight and so they are left to struggle with your 291mm measurement and where it came from.

It is the depth of the box minus the sum of the depths of top and bottom rebates, which nominally equate to 25mm. This is because Dave, and the BS specification, use an outset end plate (my terminology) which stretches from the bottom of the top rebate to the top of the bottom rebate.

It won't have escaped your notice that this thread sought to address the general internal and external dimensions of the box/es.

Instead of presenting your ideas as fragments which seeks context because you don't fully explain your thinking. relying upon others to sort it out for themselves, collect your detail and present it as a complete item; using whatever graphics you feel will further your point of view.

To this end I am happy to provide you with any of my Inkscape diagrams that you can modify - in Inkscape - should you wish.

Width, breadth, length, height and depth are a bit subjective, but should remain consistent within an article. I'm not entirely sure if I comply with this, but can't get totally excited about it.

Do we restrict ourselves to describing the width of a box, or the length of a bar that fits across it, because we see length as a major attribute in both parts or the whole box and therefore our immediate perspective shifts regularly. I make no excuses for that, as I feel none are required of course.

So, are you totally happy about box dimensions, simple or comprehensive. which may not always be the same as individual component dimensions?

I believe in understanding and seek clarity in life, and if not in life, then always in a glass of wine. :party:

Always read complete threads and all the references.
 
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JCBrum 

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I consider it to be important to stick to the conventional exterior dimensions so as to maintain interchangeability and bee-proof stacks.

However internal bee-space ought to be maintained too, and of course the standard frame dimensions are fixed.

This means that, more or less, the dimensions and thicknesses of everything is fixed except the thickness of what Hombre refers to as the central part of the 'end-plate' (I think of it as the 'side', but that's not important).

I also decided that the saving to be afforded by using thinner material (say 9mm) than the ubiquitous 18mm stuff was not worth the effort.

JC.
 

Jim Lavie 

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You seem to be seeking to translate Dave's diagram to reflect a 412x12 box, but don't offer your audience the insight and so they are left to struggle with your 291mm measurement and where it came from.
I thought the link would show where the measurements came from, I also thought that extra 90mm from standard brood box to 14x12 would be clear. I guess as a newbie I don't know enough to trying to answer questions sorry:(
 

Hombre 

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The information was there Jim, but it wasn't as clear as you might have made it had you pointed it out. You after all had the benefit of your own thoughts when making the link. You will perhaps need to communicate these thoughts to the readers that aren't fully tuned in on the wavelength.

The frame size dictates all dimensions and the construction method from that point on is largely a personal choice.

If you choose to use the traditional techniques then official specifications are fine, otherwise it's only compatibility, interoperability and longevity that matter.

By asking your questions and exposing yourself (please don't) to correction you will better understand where you have missed a trick and will quickly become a lot more adept at working your way around the various dimensions of a box than those with less enquiring minds.

Or, in other words, don't take it all to heart. And welcome. :)
 

Springer 

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Don't know much about bees yet but woodwork is a better subject for me.bee-smillie
Built a couple of hives over the summer and had a bit of trouble getting my head around sizes.
One thing I did note was that the British Standards drawing shown on the Scottish Beekeepers site shows the top rebate at 11/16 inches i.e. 17.5 mm.
The plans on Dave Cusmans site make it 15mm to my reconing, which works out a bit tight for j type runners and top bars of 10mm ?
I now need to ncrease the rebate on the boxes I have made when boxes become available.
Am I right or did I miss something ?
S
 

Springer 

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Just to clarify my thinking,. the attachment shows my latest working drawing ?
I'm on a bit of a learning curve here, with regard to this forum, on my usual one, regarding brewing, the residents are always/usually very well natured. i.e. have a positive laid back attitude, that is, sometimes here the attitude seem to reflects what the bees dished out earlier. :boxing_smiley:
Only joking, been watching and learning lots from almost all very helpful members, for six months or more. Sometimes some attitudes here are not what is expected and the tone is a little over the top and not very forgiving ?
Lets see how that goes down ?
Best Regards
S
 
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Hivemaker. 

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Welcome to the forum Springer.....nice picture,do you work your spaniel.
I make the frame top bars 9mm not 10mm at the ends,and the timber thickness 19mm not 18mm....but i know these drawing do vary slightly,re invent the wheel.
 
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MuswellMetro 

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Though I am new I can do maths. David Cushmans sizes for the Brood Chamber for British Standard National Bee Hive are 460 length by 225 wide for Sides and 424 long by 201 wide front and back panels.
Though it says wide this is the depth and the smaller sized one is for frame and bottom beespace on his diagram. http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/natbrood.html

The 14X12 adss another 90mm to the width of the panels which is 315 and 291. At least I think so :)
yes your should add 89mm or 90mm, i use 90mm eke on standrards broods but if some of the big supplier use 89mm for ekes but 85mm to 100mm doesn't mattter if it is over a floor,

you can get away with a eke box 46cm x 46cm x 9cm in 18mm wood but you may wish to improve it by also considering an uprise to fill the bee space rebate in the standard brood, just sits nicer, maisemore's is of this style while £hornes sits on top rather than underneath

i also use 90mm eke for api guard , fondant & feeders so make more than i need for 14x12 conversion of standard brood boxes,


if you are going to 14x12, remember in an emergency two supers are 300 and a floor is 21 so you still have bees space under 304mm 14x12 frames
 
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