14/12 frames Q abt Bottom bar

[Alabamaeee]

I bought some 14x12 hoffman frames to make up for next year.

I have been told by an experienced beek that I should buy a one piece bottom bar instead of fitting the standard 2 piece bottom bars. His reason is that they are much stronger and prevent warping of the frame.

What do you guys that run 14x12 hives use?

Has you had problems with warping using the standard two pice bottom bar?

 

[coffin dodger]

Hi,
I'm on 14x12's and using frames with 2 piece bars, no sign of warping, sagging or anything else to report.

Regards
CD

 

[clv101]

My 14x12 frames with usual 2 piece bottom bars are mostly fine. One or two (out of 22) show a little bit of warping but nothing serious, not worth buying different bars if you already have the usual 2 piece bars.

 

[Luminos]

Most of my WBC's are on 14 x 12's, and I've had no problems with the 2 piece bars.

 

[itma]

No warping.
When making up new frames check more carefully that they are square and flat. The longer side arms mean more mm out of true for the same angle out of true. That matters.
And some would claim warping, rather than assembly error ...

Until reinforced with cocoon silk, the wax may be a bit floppy, so while its still very pale and 'clean', treat it more like a top bar hive's comb - keep the comb very close to the vertical plane.
To deal with that, someone suggested deliberately putting the foundation in upside down, and then bending the long wire loops around the bottom bars to better stabilise the comb. I've tried it, its no big deal.

Bob Smith suggests using Manley frame bottom bars (wider) on beespace considerations. If anything, I think using sidebars with a 4mm (not 6mm) scallop (to give 8mm rather than 12mm beespace below the hoffman spacers) is more important than the bottom bars. I'm not doing either ... yet!

 

[Alabamaeee]

That's what I like about this forum, so much help and fast too.

Seems like I will try it with two piece and see what happens. I am anal about getting things square and true anyway, but will check them carefully when assembling the new frames.

 

[Holly Bees]

ive 14x12 with 2 piece standard bottom bars and Manley bottom bars. The ones with Manleys are better IMHO

 

[REDWOOD]

The wider top bars are defiantly better than the narrow ones, I use the standard 2 piece bottom bars and had no problems with twisting, I also use a little jig made from a couple of scrap bits of wood screwed to a board to hold the frame parts true before nailing so this eliminates construction errors

 

[Nic Rhodes]

Don't think there is much doubt beekeepers prefer DN5s and single manley bottom bars but is down to cost at the end of the day. In over 35 years I can't think of a frame that needed these extra measures, nice yes, needed? No. Both are fine. The bees are happy with both. Beekeppers may want one however...

 

[m100]

Not sure if it is universal across all national frame makers but in my experience Manley bottom bars when fitted to a hoffman shaped side bar, leave a step because the side bar is waisted too much.

 

[itma]

Not sure if it is universal across all national frame makers but in my experience Manley bottom bars when fitted to a hoffman shaped side bar, leave a step because the side bar is waisted too much.

No, its not universal - and, according to Bob Smith it is a mistake.
But its what you see on T's frames.

However, its different with NBS frames (see link below for a photo), and I think Maisies.
Link to previous discussion of this point - http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17022&page=5

And a sidenote - Bob Smith's hives are 14x12s ...

 

[Alabamaeee]

The wider top bars are defiantly better than the narrow ones, I use the standard 2 piece bottom bars and had no problems with twisting, I also use a little jig made from a couple of scrap bits of wood screwed to a board to hold the frame parts true before nailing so this eliminates construction errors

All the best ideas are simple but effective. I'll knock a similar one together for my next frame construction frenzy

 

[drstitson]

unfortunately Hoffmans come in 3 sizes - 35/28, 37/28 and 38/28. The former two are close approximations to beespace between frame bottoms. likewise up top when using wide (28mm) top bars.

the bottom bars SHOULD be 12.5mm giving a 3mm space between and 28mm total (or 28mm solid manley).

i think the hoffmans sold as seconds are the culprits wrt how narrow the side bars are.

 

[itma]

Don't think there is much doubt beekeepers prefer DN5s and single manley bottom bars but ...

...
the bottom bars SHOULD be 12.5mm giving a 3mm space between and 28mm total (or 28mm solid manley).

Manley bottom bars don't have to be solid or one-piece.

I have "BS" Manley bottom bars that are used in pairs, with a slot for foundation between the two ...

 

[drstitson]

er yes. normal situation is to have pairs. that's why i said "the bottom bars SHOULD be 12.5mm giving a 3mm space between and 28mm total".

 

[itma]

er yes. normal situation is to have pairs. ...

Indeed. However, the references to "single Manley bottoms" and "solid Manleys" might have at least some wondering whether the "one piece" bottom bars illustrated in T's catalogue might be being indicated - especially as they appear to be wider than the mounting notches ... just like the Manleys!