Wrong frame queen cells!

[bjosephd]

Did an AS swarm at the beginning of the week and in the Q- side a put a frame from a completely different colony as I wanted a new queen daughter of a particular queen.

They totally ignored the 'foreign' frame and have only drawn down queen cells on their own frames.

I believe it is because the 'donor' frame was rather old comb, and that they are more enclined to raise/convert emergency queens on relatively fresh and malleable comb.

I shut the box up yesterday without doing anything in order to assess the situation.

In hindsight I should have let them go hopelessly queen less first before adding my preferred frame.

I'm tempted to break down all queen cells today, and then make an attempt at grafting on monday… but it would be a first… and am also annoyed to have lost a good week on getting a mated queen!

I could try simply another frame, but I am mid-transfer of hive format, so the frames available to me are limited and may be both old comb and/or not got the right aged brood in! This is why grafting MIGHT be the ideal solution… but it would be a first!

Thoughts?

 

[enrico]

I did a similar thing and they eat all the eggs from the foreign frame. I had left a drone layer in the hive. I took her out and tried again two days later and had fifteen queen cells on the first reign frame this time. I reckon it is down to the eggs smelling wrong!
E

 

[bjosephd]

Hmm... bums...

what do you reckon? Break down the queen cells and try grafting? Or not risk a losing battle and just choose a nice fat one that they have already started raising and suck it up and hope that the queen they raise from their own queen mates with some better drones?

Grrr...

Don't really want to risk encouraging a drone layer... there were actually eggs in there when I last looked... but I wondered if that was just neglected and dead eggs from a lack of staffing due to split/AS (not all nurse bees came with the split as it was AS pre swarm preps from a developing double brood).

 

[B+.]

Did an AS swarm at the beginning of the week and in the Q- side a put a frame from a completely different colony as I wanted a new queen daughter of a particular queen.

They totally ignored the 'foreign' frame and have only drawn down queen cells on their own frames.

<snip>

Thoughts?

Where did they get the eggs?
If it was a Nuc with open larvae, then they would use their own siblings as potential queens rather than any you introduce.

 

[bjosephd]

Where did they get the eggs?
If it was a Nuc with open larvae, then they would use their own siblings as potential queens rather than any you introduce.

Hive had old brood box on top full of brood.

Second brood box was below being filled and laid in also, just a few frames being drawn.

Separated top box off.

Shook in a few frames of nurse bees from bottom box into top box.

Q- top box is moved 100m away and given frame of bias from another hive/queen.

Split hive Q+ bottom box remains in original position with few frames of brood, some nurse bees, and all flying bees.

A few days later Q- box has drawn emergency queen cells on various frames but not from the donor frame of marvellous genetics!

In hindsight I should have made them hopelessly queenless before introducing foreign frame.

Think I will just go in tomorrow (or later today) and choose a nice big juicy queen cell, knock the rest down and leave them to it. Fortunately my decent queen has a hive full of drones!

I'll attempt queen rearing instead when there is no risk of a colony going queenless for longer than is ideal!

 

[B+.]

In hindsight I should have made them hopelessly queenless before introducing foreign frame.

but, its a learning process. You'll get there.

If I might suggest...put a queen excluder between the boxes for 9 days. Then, you can lift the top box off and form your starter (having shaken the bees off each frame and destroyed any queen cells)

 

[bjosephd]

but, its a learning process. You'll get there.

If I might suggest...put a queen excluder between the boxes for 9 days. Then, you can lift the top box off and form your starter (having shaken the bees off each frame and destroyed any queen cells)

That makes total sense!

Yep. That learning is still rather curvy!