Wrecked hive full of Bees What next !

[Chris Luck]

Thank you MM, as you say it's not even notifiable in France and is also called "Benign Disease" therefore,as with thousands of UK bee keepers in the past, I'm not over concerned by EFB....

....but heck, don't let a few simple realities get in the way of your fears.

Chris

 

[oliver90owner]

Putting a box above the brood and waiting will induce the bees to move up any stores below. Even waiting a week, or three (depending on temteratures), and then inserting an empty box over the old brood and under the Q/E would encourage them even more.

If there is plenty of time, why try to rush things. Pulling a brood apart will always have a risk of losing the queen. KISS principle every time, after assessing the pros and cons, of course.

Nobody should be encouraging robbing - there may be a local 'AFB' colony, as yet undiagnosed, with all the imported honey around, it can occur anywhere at any time bees are flying. Simply an i d i o t risk. Avoidance of disease is far, far better than having to cure it, or live with an increased risk of re-infection for years to come (with AFB).

 

[DanBee]

Efb afb
Would be my main thoughts on open feeding.
Can it spread this way I ask .

Aside from disease and robbing risks, it's also impractical in the spring: small colonies can't bring it in at the rate they need it; large colonies that don't need it clog their brood nests with it and cramp themselves => swarm impulse.

 

[DanBee]

Thank you MM, as you say it's not even notifiable in France and is also called "Benign Disease" therefore,as with thousands of UK bee keepers in the past, I'm not over concerned by EFB....

....but heck, don't let a few simple realities get in the way of your fears.

Chris

Chris - wind you neck in a bit. Whilst I agree that susbees was a little premature speaking for the greater 'us', you do also rather delight in being contrary with your posts. Your suggestion that we ignore EFB is highly inappropriate.

EFB can be a serious problem, significantly weakening affected colonies hence contributing to losses, and will of course transport readily to other nearby colonies. That's why our* inspectors treat it as an apiary disease, not a colony disease. It would be unwise to simply shrug our shoulders and allow EFB to become just another contributory stress for the bees - it's not like they need more stressors.

* I write 'our' as in "here in the UK", not to represent the greater 'us' of the forum

 

[nigel434]

Maybe a stupid question but what does kiss principle mean

 

[Chris Luck]

Here's the problem, I didn't say ignore EFB.

People should read what is written PLEASE.

Equally having done this many, many times I disagree about this being the wrong time of year, it's just about the best time of year. Colonies are at about their smallest, they should have brood and there is plenty of pollen around for most of us, (France, Italy, Spain, UK). By feeding them back their own honey, (you could of course do this by crush and strain then top feeder), they will have plenty of stores. They will not block up a new hive, the queen will start laying and they will take pollen in from day two at the latest.

All I have said, (and ever say) is what I do, not told anyone else what to do, simply added my experience and perspective to the overall sum of knowledge on the subject. In fact I never tell anyone else what to do, I'm not that insecure.

One things for sure, (mercifully), I'll never be accused of being in a clique.

Chris

 

[The Cumbrian]

Maybe a stupid question but what does kiss principle mean

Keep it simple silly

 

[nigel434]

Thank you

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Chris - wind you neck in a bit. Whilst I agree that susbees was a little premature speaking for the greater 'us', you do also rather delight in being contrary with your posts. Your suggestion that we ignore EFB is highly inappropriate.

EFB can be a serious problem, significantly weakening affected colonies hence contributing to losses, and will of course transport readily to other nearby colonies. That's why our* inspectors treat it as an apiary disease, not a colony disease. It would be unwise to simply shrug our shoulders and allow EFB to become just another contributory stress for the bees - it's not like they need more stressors.

* I write 'our' as in "here in the UK", not to represent the greater 'us' of the forum

especially the us bit!

 

[rae]

The difference in the two approaches probably depends on how far you have travelled:

1) If you have travelled a long way to this hive, then a cut out is sensible: you don't want to come back again.

2) If it is a few miles away, then it is quicker and easier to stick a good BB on top and wait for the queen to go up - then pick her up later.

On the open feeding...I see both points. Robbing does happen, has always happened, and will continue to happen. So it is not a binary decision: you don't automatically get EFB from robbing, you just increase your chances. Would I "open feed" in the apiary? No - it would encourage bad behaviour. If I was dealing with a hive in the middle of nowhere, would I let the bees clean up their own mess? Probably. Every time I put a load of busted comb in an empty super for them to clean out, the little blighters simply build more comb around it, even if they have a perfectly good super "downstairs".

 

[oliver90owner]

the little blighters simply build more comb around it, even if they have a perfectly good super "downstairs".

They would not, if it was down in the basement!

 

[Poly Hive]

Re open feeding.

Provided you are isolated. Please carefully note the provided before charging in...

Given isolation open feeding has advantages if... note the if please, if coupled with individual hive feeding.

The open feeder needs to be big.

1. If the hive feeder runs dry there is feed to be had.

2. The availability of that open feed means the bees will ignore weak hives that otherwise may be vulnerable to robbing.

However...........this is unlikely to be true for many parts of England and low land Scotland.

Again before charging in, I am talking about isolated situations where there is no risk of other colonies being involved.

PH

 

[rae]

They would not, if it was down in the basement!

Tried that as well. The simply filled it up with honey!

 

[dryar]

Did its today.

Removed super and roof full of ivy and wrecked frames.

Scraped off remnants of queen excluder to expose the brood nest contained in a mixture of old frames tree roots and scrub.

Rebuilt hive with a plywood board with. 4 holes cut therein

New brood box and virgin frames

Crown board

Rapid feeder and 1.1 syrup.

New roof


Hoping the colony will draw comb and hm will lay in new box. Once tHis is done qx underneath . Let any remaining brood hatch and then scrape and clear existing mess . New floor and away we go hopefully.

See what it is like next weekend

 

[Poly Hive]

Way to go.

Only thing I would have done differently is it cut a hole the size of the BB in the ply. But what you have done should work.

PH