working layer fix!

[burren]

Hi all

I did a "worker layer fix" last night on my hive( approx 9pm ( took whole hive 30 or so yards as gently brushed all frames etc on to sheet on the ground). It seemed to go ok and most of the bees were back at the hive, by the time it was reassembled. I left the remaining bees on the sheet. By the time I put the roof on the hive the bees seemed settled. On returning to the "sheet" today at 7pm I was quite surprised to see so many bees ( about 200! on the sheet) and a far few drones. It had started to rain a fair bit and they were still alive and not attempting to fly anywhere ( the weather in the day earlier had been quite warm and dry) Why was there so many bees still there? Had all of those bees never left the hive before? Hive had been q- for 4 weeks approx. Thanks in advance for your ideas.

 

[kazmcc]

I don't know what a worker layer fix is, i'm a new beek, but couldn't you pick the sheet up with the bees on it and tip them back in the hive?

 

[burren]

Hi Kazmcc
No dont want to do that , as dont know which were the "laying workers" and dont want to put them back in the hive! But did feel very sorry for the "lost" ones on the sheet.

 

[MuswellMetro]

I don't know what a worker layer fix is, i'm a new beek, but couldn't you pick the sheet up with the bees on it and tip them back in the hive?

if your queen dies then if they cannot produce a new queen then the workers can start laying ..they are all female

but the are not fertile so they only lay males

laying worker fix, is to take the bees some distance away...the normal bees return, the laying worker stays where you put the bees

you can then requeen

Kazmcc/// we will make a beekeeper of you yet, pity you dont live closer to me, we need peope who ask questions...i;d give bees away to people like you, because i know they wil love the Bees

 

[Ouarda]

hey muswell it's great to have peeps like you around to guide us feckless ones lol

 

[MuswellMetro]

Hi all

I did a "worker layer fix" last night on my hive( approx 9pm ( took whole hive 30 or so yards as gently brushed all frames etc on to sheet on the ground). It seemed to go ok and most of the bees were back at the hive, by the time it was reassembled. I left the remaining bees on the sheet. By the time I put the roof on the hive the bees seemed settled. On returning to the "sheet" today at 7pm I was quite surprised to see so many bees ( about 200! on the sheet) and a far few drones. It had started to rain a fair bit and they were still alive and not attempting to fly anywhere ( the weather in the day earlier had been quite warm and dry) Why was there so many bees still there? Had all of those bees never left the hive before? Hive had been q- for 4 weeks approx. Thanks in advance for your ideas.

never done it, so only guessing, could they be nurse bees andn new drones who never did their orientation flight...therefore no map of the hives location//yawn going to bed. its 1.30 pm

 

[Queens59]

Thing is Muswell, we new beeks have found we'll get sensible, achievable advice from experienced beeks like you, PolyHive etc...some books make the techniques sound like brain surgery. I'm sure sometimes you read something and groan, and answer the same question 100s' of times but you still answer the questions and help us. That means a great deal. Thanks to all of you who do.

 

[kazmcc]

Thanks Muswell You are so kind, I could do with you just round the corner too. Now I know, I won't tip any sheet full of bees into my hive I didn't even think what you would do with the laying workers when a hive was queenless.....I just assumed they would go back to being workers when a queen was introduced. Thanks for explaining it to me. Queens is right in saying some things are better explained by a person who you can ask questions of, rather than reading in a book...if you don't get it first time you just remain puzzled, often getting the wrong end of the stick.

You are right on one other thing, I take looking after the bees very seriously, they are living creatures who depend on me, to some degree, to keep them healthy. I want to know and understand every aspect of their care. I feel honoured you would trust me with the care of some bees from your colonies Thank you.

 

[oliver90owner]

I just assumed they would go back to being workers when a queen was introduced.

Most do, but not always all. We add a test-frame (or more), of brood and eggs, to get the bees back to producing queens before introducing another queen normally. Safer, and cheaper - if one buys in a queen for that purpose.

Remember, it is not the laying workers that will kill the queen.

Regards, RAB

 

[burren]

...... Back to original question... Is that/does that sound like an excessive amount of bees left on the sheet that are unable to fly back to hive, it seems an awful shame if they are going to die.

 

[Hivemaker.]

No need to carry out any of this shaking bee's out performance,if the colony is strong in bee numbers and worth saving in the first place

 

[garethbryson]

No need to carry out any of this shaking bee's out performance,if the colony is strong in bee numbers and worth saving in the first place

how do you get rid of the laying workers them HM? if you requeen will the new queens pheremone subdue the workers overies again?

 

[gavin]

That sounds like good advice Rab. Last year I shook out a laying worker colony some distance away having put a nuc with a laying queen on the spot. They killed the queen and raised a new one from an egg.

I've heard it said that the best way to cure a laying worker colony is to insert a protected queen cell (aluminium foil will do, leaving the tip exposed). By the time the queen hatches they've accepted that a supercedure is taking place.

G.

 

[burren]

What would you suggest to do instead HM? I have requeened after the "Shake". Is there another way I should have proceeded? As yes I want to keep the hive, please enlighten me as am still very new to bees and will be a beginner for a good few years yet.

 

[tkwinston4]

...... Back to original question... Is that/does that sound like an excessive amount of bees left on the sheet that are unable to fly back to hive, it seems an awful shame if they are going to die.

I did exactly the same as this and i had about the same number left on the old brood box. By the next day they had all gone. Presume they went home but got no idea. Whatever they did a laying worker appeared again two weeks later.
I am now in the process of trying to get them to accept a new queen at the mo. Put her in the cage she came in on friday into the hive but not had chance to check on her yet. Really hope that it works because if not they are all doomed

 

[Hivemaker.]

By adding frames of brood which gives of pheromones,which in turn tends to inhibit laying workers and put the colony back in whack..ready to introduce a new queen or produce there own by making queen cells, three frames of brood over a period of a couple of weeks or so...often works with one frame of open brood....maybe two...but certainly with three.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm


http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5519

 

[Keggal]

200 bees doesn't seem like alot of lost souls from a full shook colony, especially if done late in the evening.
Not sure about the theory behind this laying worker fix since the workers with the most developed ovaries in any hive are usually the foragers since they receive less queen subs (being out of the hive for a period each day) and are not generally tending brood. All the foragers (hence laying workers) should thus make their way back to the hive!
From experience, the fix that works best for me is to add open brood followed by a caged mated queen. After 3 to 4 days, the mated queen is painted with a dab of honey and released directly onto a frame. Alternatively, if workers have been laying for a while and there is already plenty of drone brood present, you don't even need to add brood as the pheeromones released by the drone brood will already have begun to supress the laying workers' ovaries.
This fix has worked for 3 out of 3 of my colonies this year (no brood added).

 

[burren]

Hi all
Thanks for all your ideas and help. I really appreciate the time you have taken to advise me. I will check after 7 days and see if q has been released and is laying (heres hoping!).