Wiring Langstroth Frame

[buzz]

Why no grooves in Langstroth side-bars?

Can anyone explain why there are no grooves in Langstroth/Dadant side-bars (purchased from Thornes), whereas all other types of frames have grooved side bars to supprt the foundation?

Having made up my first few Langstroth Jumbo Brood frames, the lack of side grooves results in a rather floppily (?) attached sheet of wired foundation.

Previous posts indicate that I now need to add additional wiring through eyelets in the side bars to support the wired foundation. Is this really necessary or do the bees wax-weld the foundation in place firmly enough once the frames are fully drawn?

Confused

Bzz

 

[oliver90owner]

By the time they are drawn they will be securely affixed.

Perhaps less likely to deform? If always like that, they have done alright for the last umpteen years, so don't worry about it. Grooves are a bear to scrape out - to replace foundation - but it does encourage a hot dip in washing soda or similar to be able to easily use them again.

Still confused?

Regards, RAB

 

[buzz]

Thanks RAB

These are brand new frames that I have made up, and my first time with Langstroths. So I will keep my fingers crossed that the bees strengthen the attachment of the foundation to the frame.

I am rather surprised (or maybe not) that there is such a basic difference between UK frames and the ubiquitous Langstroth. The extra work involved in drilling the sidebars, inserting eyelets and embedding wire into the foundation* makes this quite a task for a beginner.

* Dave Cushman's website indicates that wiring and embedding foundation takes a long time to master.

 

[oliver90owner]

That was obviously your choice of frame. There are plusses and minuses to any system. One chooses and lives with it, or one changes....The Langstroth system is the most poular in the world, so must be quite satisfactory. Never tried it myself, though.

Are you changing to polyhives from Nationals, or in addition? I find 14 x 12 a good frame for me (or rather the bees!). I use them in Nationals and Dartingtons and possibly (shortly) in a plastic Dartington.

Regards, RAB

 

[beeboybee]

should i wire 12 x 14 ? even if its pre wired foundation

 

[oliver90owner]

You can, but I have never wired anything more than the supplier has done already.

So not a case of should, or should not. Your choice. Belt and braces for a new beek maybe....as the frames are quite big. But, I had practised with standard brood before I changed to 14 x 12.

Regards, RAB

 

[buzz]

RAB

I was given 3 Langstroth Jumbo hives by a retiring beekeeper; sold 2 and decided to give the remaining Langstroth a try this year.

So far, in my 9 months of beekeeping I have acquired 2 WBC, 2 Nats, 2 14 x 12 Nats and these Jumbo Langstroths, despite reading about the importance of commonality!

To cut down on the jumble of non-matching bits I am working on standarising on 14 x 12s, including using them inside the WBCs in the garden. I just wish I had gone for Top Bee Space from the start - too late now, maybe next year.


Regards

Bzz

 

[oliver90owner]

Missed the 'jumbo' in your first post. Some good sized frames there!

It's only the Langstroth that is 'odd'. All the rest at least have commonality in frame width. Simple ekes to convert one to another.

And, yes, I like top bee space! I've had WBCs and Std Nats and now run 14 x12s and Dartingtons (including the plastic version, soon to be colonised?).

Regards, RAB

 

[Black Comb]

I've moved to Jumbo L/s and a local beek who has run them for 300 years advised me to use wired foundation with 2 extra horizontal wires as they are better with this extra support when full of honey and/or brood.

I've deferred to his experience and wire as per the thread on here.

I must say they do look/feel more substantial when finished.

 

[oliver90owner]

a local beek who has run them for 300 years

This local beek. He'll be getting on now? Drawing his old age pension?

Sorry, but couldn't resist.

Regards, RAB

 

[Black Comb]

Rab

I didn't want to say it was you but you've gone and admitted it.

 

[oliver90owner]

Yeah, but I've only got my bus pass, not due for the OAP quite yet!

But what's an extra digit between friends? Someone was going to notice it, but maybe the rest are too polite, or just not observant?

Regards, RAB

 

[herefordshirehoney]

I know this an old post but thought it was best posted here .

My swienty poly langstroths should be arriving friday, i got 50 x brood frames and 50 x medium's in the thornes winter sales. I dont need to make them all up but wanted to get a start this weekend (just need to order the foundation from KBS).

I've spoken to someone in the local association that uses woodern langstroth's he's said just get wired foundation and dont worry about the wiring. Did anyone here try that in the end and what results came out better wired vs unwired?

So many choices

Thanks,
Chris

 

[drstitson]

The frames from Big T are just like normal UK frames so have no need to be wired. just get standard wired foundation as per normal.

 

[Poly Hive]

Realisticially unless you are extracting the broods and Heather is involved then as said there is no need to double wire them.

Just be aware theough that they are delicate until bred in a few times and stiffened up with cocoons.

PH

 

[Black Comb]

I just use standard wired foundation in the standard langs.
For the jumbos I put in one extra horizontal reinforcing wire. Used to use 2 but one suffices.

 

[RoofTops]

I know this an old post but thought it was best posted here .

My swienty poly langstroths should be arriving friday, i got 50 x brood frames and 50 x medium's in the Th**nes winter sales. I dont need to make them all up but wanted to get a start this weekend (just need to order the foundation from KBS).

I've spoken to someone in the local association that uses woodern langstroth's he's said just get wired foundation and dont worry about the wiring. Did anyone here try that in the end and what results came out better wired vs unwired?

So many choices

Thanks,
Chris

Just a quick couple of observations. I hope you ordered Dadant shallow frames from T's not Langstroth shallow. The latter will not be deep enough.

Wired frames once you have all the kit are much quicker to add new foundation to - but the rub is you need the kit and you need to wire them in the first place of course.

 

[the naked beekeeper]

Hang on.

I am going over to Langs this season.
Obviously the side bars have no groove...so I would have thought wiring would make them much more sturdy?

Do other Lang users just whack in normal wired foundation and it's ok?
I have no experience yet, so yours is appreciated.

What about the super frames, does the same apply?....obviously they are subject to high revolution spinning and do not have any brood in to strengthen them.

 

[Black Comb]

For normal langs, brood and supers, just whack them in. It works
Bees build comb onto sides of frame so slots don't matter once they have drawn them out.
I use manleys in the supers.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Do other Lang users just whack in normal wired foundation and it's ok?
I have no experience yet, so yours is appreciated.

What about the super frames, does the same apply?....obviously they are subject to high revolution spinning and do not have any brood in to strengthen them.

We use Jumbos, which are a bit deeper than the standard Langs although the supers are the same size.

We've got a mixture, mainly because we expected the wiring to be difficult, but it's actually quite easy.

In the brood frames the pre-wired wax doesn't seem to be very secure when it's new, and, until the bees have drawn out the frames there are only the four tacks along the top bar plus top bar, and the loops of wire held in place by the bottom bars to hold everything in place. The large piece of foundation can flex a bit too easily.

Horizontally wired frames seem much better. They seem more rigid, if anything, and there's less need avoid holding the frames horizontally. They can be fully waxed or with a strip an inch or so deep.