Wintering Swarms ?

[Sir Quej]

Hi All

I have two swarms that I got in June. Both are laying and have a good qty of brood and store but both are currently still only NUC sized. I will be moving them into full sized hives in the next week or so but I was just wondering:

1) At what point in the year (if at all) do I need to decide whether or not they are not strong enough to winter them seperately, and therefore consider combining them?

2) What sort of "Strength do they need to be to stand a good chance of making it through the winter?

3) If i do decide to combine them, what is the best method?

4) If I do combine them, how do I go about giving one of the queens to a another keeper (both queens were virgins when caught, so this years i think. It would be a shame to waste one of them)?

Thanks for any advice offered.

 

[susbees]

Might be more a case of leaving them in nucs as bee numbers will drop significantly with winter bees and ensuring you get the store levels right. Insulated slabs of Kingspan can be tied around and on top of wooden boxes if you're on a cold/exposed site (although shelter to the north is a great idea)...unless poly already of course.

It is quite possible that one or both of the queens was badly mated with the weather so a spare would be no bad thing.

How much brood do you have at present in each?

 

[Sir Quej]

Thanks Susbees, when i did my checks at the weekend each nuc had a good 5-6 sides of brood (I reckon about three full frames in each if you put them all together). Were also plenty of new eggs in each nuc that I havent counted in the above estimate.

I'm going to a free course my association is running on wintering bees so hopefully i will learn a bit more then but I never even considered leaving them in the NUC's to be honest as I didnt want to risk them swarming due to lack of space.

 

[Finman]

.
Nucs have lots of time to develope nomal size hive.
To make that sure

- keep the nuc warm. No mesh floor, or closed.
-entrance 3cm x 1 cm
- no feeding because it takes room from brood.
- no extra/unoccupied combs in the hive.

 

[Sir Quej]

Thanks Finman

I have been feeding the Nucs up to now as they were on fresh undrawn foundation (I'm a 1st year beek and didnt have any drawn frames). I have now stopped feeding as i noticed they were bringing in lots of pollen anyway.

Sorry, maybe should have said earlier, I am on 14x12's (dont know what if any difference this makes)

 

[susbees]

Sorry, maybe should have said earlier, I am on 14x12's (dont know what if any difference this makes)

It means more brood per side than Nats (we have Commercials - same deal). Do the sums...useful for feeding and more.

 

[MartinL]

Hi all,
I've got three nucs (2 swarms and a 14X12-split), that I was going to leave to overwinter.
The split is now very tight for space so had the idea of cutting down some old supers to take 5 frames of stores & put these ontop.

Anyone else tried this?

 

[Poly Hive]

Yes on a different scale, so as a technique it is valid.

PH

 

[Finman]

Hi all,
I've got three nucs (2 swarms and a 14X12-split), that I was going to leave to overwinter.
The split is now very tight for space so had the idea of cutting down some old supers to take 5 frames of stores & put these ontop.

Anyone else tried this?

Anyone else tried this? - surely half of globe

in UK hives have 2 month time to develope. It i not a proplems to rear good hives- But if you do not know the basics, nothing happens.

And before winter feeding you just evalutea what you have in your hands. If hives are week you unite them that they will be strong. Hives are different.

If start is small, build up will be slow. That is the fact. Guys think that feeding is the key to everything, but it is not.

.

 

[Finman]

I have been feeding the Nucs up to now as they were on fresh undrawn foundation )

Foundations is not a good base to start nucs. Fresh gives no added value in build up.


What a nuc needs is:

- nurser bees enough
- insulation and a warm hive that the brood area is big
- pollen

You may add all these to the nuc from bigger hives and accelerate build up.
In late summer, when nature gives no yield, you may give several brood frames to nuc and at once the nuc is normal hive, - if you want so.

.

 

[susbees]

Foundations is not a good base to start nucs. Fresh gives no added value in build up.

.

These nucs were both swarms, Finman. And foundation and a bit of 1:1 syrup in a nuc box (if needed) is the way to build up small swarms.

 

[Sean.]

Having 14x12 frames gives about 1/3 extra space.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/bsframedimensions.html

 

[Rosti]

Since not covered in the thread so far. By all means winter feed as usual but the higher relative surface area of a nuc and lower critical mass of bees (esp if a late swarm) means they will burn stores quicker. As a matter of routine I suggest you should be placing a well insulated feeding eke on each nuc and a slab of fondant (above a feeding hole) for the duration of the winter. Will likely keep them central and fed at the same time (easy stores monitoring as well). R

 

[Finman]

These nucs were both swarms, Finman. ms.

Sorry, yes headline was about swarms...
Swarms are anxious to draw foundations.