Winter ventilation for a solid-floor hive?

[Finman]

One of my colonies has closed up the entrance to a couple of small holes in the propolis wall. They have decided that they don't need a gaping hole in the front of the hive.

My hives have never tried suicide.
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[madasafish]

I have converted half my hives to solid wood insulated floors. Hive Cosies, floor inclined slightly down to front to remove any moisture.
No signs of condensation in two winters , no mouldy combs...no matchsticks.
160m above sea level and frost pocket - we saw -16C in 2011-12 winters - and edge of the Peak District so a good test.

I treat all UK reports of holes in crown boards /matchsticks as science mired in the past.

And I also treat all derision of insulation from those living in maritime parts of the UK or the balmy South of the country as ignorance of other climates..

My bees overwinter better with lower use of stores with insulation and better with solid insulated floors than OMF - even with the varroa board inserted.. Varroa boards inserted in OMFs in uninsulated floors end up going mouldy so I have insulated below varroa boards.. takes 10 minutes per hive.

 

[eddyh]

My hives have never tried suicide.
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[Amari]

One of my colonies has closed up the entrance to a couple of small holes in the propolis wall. They have decided that they don't need a gaping hole in the front of the hive.

Is that a solid floor or OMF hive?

 

[Poly Hive]

I have seen that built on the floor of a Swienty poly so yes they may do it on OMF.

PH

 

[peterbees]

This is a piss take yes?

PH

No it is not!

 

[MartinL]

Thin shims. You could use short pieces of wood of appropriate section and say about 30mm long

With a bulbous red end, sometimes in a yellow box & used by smokers without gas-lighters?

 

[pargyle]

No it is not!

Welll ... that will be 10 up to date beekeepers who believe firmly that well insulated hives with closed holes in the crownboard are really the best thing for bees over winter (and that's just so far in this thread) and one ...... who clearly believes the world is not round.

 

[madasafish]

Welll ... that will be 10 up to date beekeepers who believe firmly that well insulated hives with closed holes in the crownboard are really the best thing for bees over winter (and that's just so far in this thread) and one ...... who clearly believes the world is not round.

Do not take the urine.. English bee keeping is full of people who learned something which worked some time ago and just repeat it every YEAR because it works. Nothing wrong with that.. But when you get someone who says "I've been doing it for forty years and it works" - with no expression of wishing possibly to do better, and worse still preaches to to newbies, - then you end up being unsurprised that large parts of UK beekeeping are mired in a narrow approach with no attempt at improvement - and average UK yields are so low.


(It reminds me of the decline of the UK manufacturing base due to an unwillingness to change - but that is another story)...

 

[pargyle]

Do not take the urine.. English bee keeping is full of people who learned something which worked some time ago and just repeat it every YEAR because it works. Nothing wrong with that.. But when you get someone who says "I've been doing it for forty years and it works" - with no expression of wishing possibly to do better, and worse still preaches to to newbies, - then you end up being unsurprised that large parts of UK beekeeping are mired in a narrow approach with no attempt at improvement - and average UK yields are so low.


(It reminds me of the decline of the UK manufacturing base due to an unwillingness to change - but that is another story)...

Exactly ....

Bill Bielby - a grand old Yorkshire beekeeper - said in his book 'Home Honey Production' in 1972 ... that there was no such thing as too much insulation and that the best way to ensure bees overwintered well was to provide them with a home that is as draughtproof as possible. Here we are... 45 years on and the message is still not getting through ...

 

[Millet]

Exactly ....

Bill Bielby - a grand old Yorkshire beekeeper - said in his book 'Home Honey Production' in 1972 ... that there was no such thing as too much insulation and that the best way to ensure bees overwintered well was to provide them with a home that is as draughtproof as possible. Here we are... 45 years on and the message is still not getting through ...

I am still new to all of this and for me common sense and a bit of thought goes a long way, nothing i have ever kept does well in a draft and bees will be thought of as the same imo, why create a draft when they can make one themselves if needed in a insulated or polyhive.

 

[Poly Hive]

I am hoping ITLD will post on this thread but he may well be rather busy with an impressive amount of tonnes of heather to process. Rather more than 11kg a hive...lol

PH

 

[user 6228]

“protection against extremes of heat and cold is a point of the VERY
FIRST IMPORTANCE; and yet this is the very point, which, in
proportion to its importance, has been most overlooked.”

“As respects ventilation from above, as well as from below, so as to
allow a free current of air to pass through the hive, I am decidedly
opposed to it, as in cool and windy weather, such a current often
compels the bees to retire from the brood, which in this way is
destroyed by a fatal chill. In thin hives, ventilation from above may be
desirable in Winter, to carry off the superfluous moisture, but in
properly constructed hives, standing over a Protector, there is, as has
already been remarked, little or no dampness to be carried off.”

 

[wessexmario]

Émile Warré died in 1951 (aged 84) and he promoted plenty of top insulation and the avoidance of condensation above the cluster so it's hardly a new idea.
Modern insulating materials and varroa have changed the tactics a little but the principle remains the same.

 

[user 6228]

Émile Warré died in 1951 (aged 84) and he promoted plenty of top insulation and the avoidance of condensation above the cluster so it's hardly a new idea.
Modern insulating materials and varroa have changed the tactics a little but the principle remains the same.

It at least 160 years old my quote was from bee and the beekeeper 1853. Langstroth.

 

[Finman]

It at least 160 years old my quote was from bee and the beekeeper 1853. Langstroth.

Langstroth lived at the latitude of 41. IT is about same as Rome of Italy.

Not very good environment to think insulation. And Amerikan beekeepers do not understand insulation even now.

.

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[Beefriendly]

But did understand the importance of ventilation during the summer. "The construction of my hives will allow, if at all desirable, of ventilation from above; and I always make use of it, when bees are shut in...etc...Goes to describe how he uses ventilation in summer, but not fully open.
Mentions, "ventilators should be easily removable for cleansing"
"Ventilators should be closed in spring"
"In thin hives ventilation from above may be desirable in winter to carry off superfluous moisture"

Worth noting that the first original Langstroth hivess had double glass observation panels and were stuffed with insulation for the winter months.

 

[Finman]

Are you serious that you seek advice to ventilation from 150 years back?

i surely not ask wintering advice from Rome or from Mr Warre fom German (?).
Vertical Top Bar hive. Low maintenance?

.

 

[Hivemaker.]

i surely not ask wintering advice from Rome

Hives
The Roman hives are thought to have been made from cork oak bark, fennel stems or wicker-work. The inside was smeared with cow dung.

http://----------------/

 

[Finman]

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Now you put cow thing only onto outer side.