Winter Survival Of Your Colonies

[Finman]

A categoric no BB.

From B. Mobus. Damp Condensation and Ventilation.

At all times bees actually seek out the most ‘comfortable’ , the warmest place of a hive, for wintering. When polystyrene insulation is experimentally placed above the crownboard the cluster will slowly migrate to the under-side of that board and will settle right between the

PH

Bees start allways wintering in the place, where the last brood were. Bees DO NOT seek the warmest place. The cluster starts from bottom and move upwards.

.... that we all know...

The cluster starts actually wintering from the place, what is coldest. It is near lower entrance.

 

[Finman]

A beekeeper with nothing to learn you are either arrogant or a fool which is it I am disapointed with myself for posting this retort but needs must

During years and decades I have read much about Canadian methods to winter the hives.
Should I read more and more, what they have to say. They do not change their methods every decade.

Patrick, are you right person to say to me, what I shoud read from internet and how I use my time? How do you know, what information is good just to me?

 

[Finman]

It's a wonder sometimes why you bother looking in here

I wonder often.
.

 

[Anduril]

During years and decades I have read much about Canadian methods to winter the hives.
Should I read more and more, what they have to say. They do not change their methods every decade.

This is a scientific approach with data to back it up. How he seals the surfaces between brood boxes. Also looking at how it could be used in warmer climates with poly to stop bearding in the summer. Please interprete the data Finman.

 

[Finman]

This is a scientific approach with data to back it up. How he seals the surfaces between brood boxes. Also looking at how it could be used in warmer climates with poly to stop bearding in the summer. Please interprete the data Finman.

I listened him a while. What I saw was the place where one of his bee yard was located. I can conclude from the trees, that it is very cold place . In Finland we have same kind of forest in Lapland, which is almost outside of practical beekeeping area.

Pruces are narrow, which means heavy snow load in winter. The forest is not dense. In those altitudes bee plant species are rare.

I admit, that in those landscapes to keep hives alive over winter is a hard job. To get honey crop from those altitudes is a secod challenge. That kind of soil is acid and poor. It is bad place to bee plants.

Cold climate and poor bee plant vegetation are things that there is no use to compare beekeeping those areas to southern areas. It about 700 kilometres travel from me to north that I meet same kind of nature.

 

[Finman]

Yellow autumn leaves are just falling down on my area.

 

[Anduril]

I listened him a while. What I saw was the place where one of his bee yard was located. I can conclude from the trees, that it is very cold place . In Finland we have same kind of forest in Lapland, which is almost outside of practical beekeeping area.

Pruces are narrow, which means heavy snow load in winter. The forest is not dense. In those altitudes bee plant species are rare.

I admit, that in those landscapes to keep hives alive over winter is a hard job. To get honey crop from those altitudes is a secod challenge. That kind of soil is acid and poor. It is bad place to bee plants.

Cold climate and poor bee plant vegetation are things that there is no use to compare beekeeping those areas to southern areas. It about 700 kilometres travel from me to north that I meet same kind of nature.

His area contains dandelion, willow, wild strawberries and cranberries and another type of cranberry, giving about 50 lb per hive of honey. The adaptation for the South will be the winter consumption of stores and the better use of insulation, a positive attitude indeed. You have to also consider he is small scale.

 

[Finman]

His area contains dandelion, willow, wild strawberries and cranberries and another type of cranberry, giving about 50 lb per hive of honey. The adaptation for the South will be the winter consumption of stores and the better use of insulation, a positive attitude indeed. You have to also consider he is small scale.

Strawberry and cranberries are not nectar plants. Willows are not ordinary honey plants, because at blooming time weathers are cold and bees cannot fly. Dandelions do not grow in forests.

In Finland some guys carry hives from south to Lapland to catch cloudberry honey from bogs.

Yes, he has 10 hives and has kept bees 10 years.

 

[user 20297]

Having listened through the entire video, (partially dozing for some of the time), I think the discussion video could have been a lot shorter and still got its message across.
The main message is the one which enlightened members here have already received....insulation, particularly over the crownboard, and no top ventilation is the way to go.
The extra matter is that Etienne has done measurement and other monitoring and comparisons in a "citizen-science" manner, so he can support most of his assertions in a way which we seem to require on this forum.
The fact that he is successfully keeping bees and making honey in such an unlikely location proves to me that he's talking sense. I think his approach is directly transferable to UK conditions, especially here in Scotland, where my bees are only 3 degrees of latitude lower than that part of the Yukon, although with a much kinder, maritime climate.
As for anyone commenting that the discussion is pointless and going over known areas of knowledge, Kamon Reynolds covers that in a very positive way by rightly commending the fact that in the world of You Tube, discussion forums and direct communications, the younger generation (and the rest of us) can be given a means to acquiring and sharing knowledge about beekeeping which can equally benefit bees as well as we lesser beings.

 

[Garry R]

A categoric no BB.

From B. Mobus. Damp Condensation and Ventilation.

ln winter too, the beeway-sized passages between honey stores avoid speedy loss of warmth through upward motions of air. At all times bees actually seek out the most ‘comfortable’ , the warmest place of a hive, for wintering. When polystyrene insulation is experimentally placed above the crownboard the cluster will slowly migrate to the under-side of that board and will settle right between the solid slabs of honey where the warmth cannot escape because of top insulation. When two nucleus boxes are together under one roof, the two colonies will move to adjacent walls so as to benefit from the warmth of the neighbouring cluster while, on its own, each colony would consciously avoid contact with the chilly outside walls. ln hives made from insulating material (expanded polystyrene), the cluster snuggles up against outer walls. lt must therefore be obvious to even a
blind man that where bees normally form their winter cluster, right underneath the beeway-spaced honey stores, they will be in the ‘warmest’ part of the hive, even though it could be next to the entrance and next to the deepest frost. Protected by the beeway above, less warmth escapes than is commonly realised.

google the title and its all on my site.

PH

As Bernard Mobus was an early mentor of mine when I was at the Rowett Institute and he was at Craibstone as Adviser We spent many hours at lunchtimes discussing poly hives and he (thankfully) persuaded me to buy the hives from a company in Kiel in Germany - only 43 years ago - which I might add I still use the same ones in the same way he showed me. A Langstroth box trimmed at the bottom to take British standard 14"x8" frames with short lugs. Cutting a fillet out of the top lengthways side touched up at the end of the season with the frames (13 to a box) now running at right angles to the original Langstroth frame direction. Painted with smooth dark brown smooth masonry paint. I make my own roofs lined with polystyrene sheets with an open mesh floor as the original had and I still have one of those too!! Now use the same idea with Honeypaw boxes . No condensation. No mould. Quick movement into supers in the spring. Good honey yield. Good brood rearing. Low stores useage.. What's not to like?. And way cheaper than wooden boxes many of which I would guess will have rotted in 43 years

 

[Finman]

I think his approach is directly transferable to UK conditions, especially here in Scotland, where my bees are only 3 degrees of latitude lower

Now you do not know what you are talking about.... Yukon conditions same as in Scotland?

But you transfer his approach if you think so. What ever it means...

I have tranfered much knowledge from Australian beekeeping and their measurements.

Yukon latitude is 64 and that of Scotland is 56. And Scotland has Gulf Stream.
Latitude of Island's Reykjavik is 64

 

[Poly Hive]

I made a few of those myself back then. Good to know there is another who appreciated a man well ahead of his time.

PH

 

[user 20297]

Sorry for the duplicate posts; I started to reply to @Finman and then decided it wasn't worth the effort. He's clearly won the argument he started.

 

[user 20297]

?

 

[CaptainCymru]

Just out of interest since on the topic of insulation, anyone used this stuff?

ThermaWrap Self-Adhesive Garden Insulation Roll - 750mm x 10m | Wickes.co.uk

Ive just wrapped the outside of the wood nationals with it and stuck some above the crown board

 

[Finman]

l,

Sorry for the duplicate posts; I started to reply to @Finman and then decided it wasn't worth the effort. He's clearly won the argument he started.

Beebe, you can learn wintering from Yukon as much as you will. I cannot stop you. But surely you have in Scotland some guys who had over wintered beehives.

Look pictures from Yukon winter from google. You understand that Yukon is not like Scotland.

 

[ericbeaumont]

wrapped the outside of the wood nationals with it and stuck some above the crown board

How will the wood boxes breathe?

 

[Erichalfbee]

How will the wood boxes breathe?

Do they need to breathe?
What about painted pine boxes?
Poly?

 

[Finman]

How will the wood boxes breathe?

Wooden box wall sucks the moisture, which comes from bees. Walls are quite wet in winter. Walls dry up outwards through the wood.

That phenomenom was the biggest what I must arrange when I started to use polyhives.

Then the ceiling acts depending how the beekeeper has planned it to happen and what material he uses. Most beekeepers not even understand what is happening in the ceiling.

Floor is basic breathing factor. Meshfloor or solid floor. Mesh floor is simple.

I have had solid floor all the time, 10 -15 cm wide entrance and 15 mm upper entrance in the front wall. Upper entrance makes the air flow in. Uppe entrance is good because snow or dead bees cannot stuck it.

 

[CaptainCymru]

floors are open mesh and then theres the entrance.The thermawrap is hydrophobic apparently.Its first time using it though so will let you know.Used cork frames last year but i was too slow taking it back out and the bees ate it.