Winter stores

[Hivemaker.]

As regards the biting, I more meant that they couldn't swallow solids- but interesting point about the moisture, easier for them to work than I thought.

The moisture content of the factory made fondant is around 14 to 15%...so not much less than stored honey.

Fondant

There seems to be no clear definition of the terms 'candy' and 'fondant', with many beekeepers using them indiscriminately. Beekeeping literature is not particularly helpful, with TSK and MP Johansson (Some Important Operations in Bee Management) giving recipes for 'Soft Candy (Fondant)' and 'Hard Candy', whilst Morse and Hooper (Encyclopædia of Beekeeping) define candy as a 'soft, fudge-like sugar solid'. A range of boiling temperatures are suggested, from 234-240ºF (Johansson 'fondant'), 243ºF (Wedmore quoted by Johansson), 243ºF (Morse and Hooper 'candy' - did they get this from Wedmore? or Johansson?), up to 310ºF (Johansson 'hard candy'). Johansson suggests adding glucose, 1 tbsp to 3lbs sugar, in their fondant, but state that 'candy makers' use 15% glucose for 'excellent' fondant.

Some sources suggest using cream of tartar in the recipe, but both of the above point out that acid-inverted sugar is toxic to bees (LE Dills, 1925) and that if inversion is desired then only enzyme inverted sugar should be used. However, Johansson points out that 'The addition of acid arrests inversion, and accelerates crystallisation, which argues against the long-established rationale for inverting sugar syrup in the first instance.'

I telephoned my supplier of Bakers' Fondant (used by many large-scale beekeepers in the UK) to establish the technical specifications and method of production. They tell me that the fondant consists of: sugar 74.5% ± 0.5%, glucose solids 14.5% ± 0.5%, water 11.0% ± 0.5%. The ingredients are heated just to boiling point (approx 221ºF) and are then stirred in a creamer until cool. This produces a soft, fine-grain sugar paste.

I would suggest that the term 'fondant' should be used only for this type of sugar paste and the term 'candy' be used where the mixture is heated to a higher temperature (typically above 234ºF) in order to evaporate some of the water and make a more solid product. The one thing that is clear is that it would seem to be unwise to add cream of tartar!

http://www.hertsbees.org.uk/bee_tips/feeding_bees_with_bakers_fo.html

 

[Black Comb]

Anyone used Ambrosia fondant?

Is it inverted?

 

[chipper]

Have used "Ambrosia" fondant.
It did nt seem any better than the Bako product and about 3 times the price.....
However,Would recommend the "Ambrosia" syrup VERY highly.
Get together and buy in bulk.....

 

[Hombre]

I telephoned my supplier of Bakers' Fondant (used by many large-scale beekeepers in the UK) to establish the technical specifications and method of production. They tell me that the fondant consists of: sugar 74.5% ± 0.5%, glucose solids 14.5% ± 0.5%, water 11.0% ± 0.5%. The ingredients are heated just to boiling point (approx 221ºF) and are then stirred in a creamer until cool. This produces a soft, fine-grain sugar paste.

I would suggest that the term 'fondant' should be used only for this type of sugar paste . . .

Thanks for that Hivemaker, it might explain why a lot of us have in the past been disappointed by the results of our fondant making from more available recipes. The explanation sounds very logical given the results that we hope for, that magic thick white paste.

Thank you, once again.

 

[oliver90owner]

That makes the water content no more than 11.5% water content.

I recall my supplier quoted around 12%. But that was a long time ago!

That means it needs a lot of water to get it to, say 17-18%. Time and effort required, so only done when bees are active. They will know if it is economic for them to transfer it to comb or just collect for metabolism.

Regards, RAB

 

[mbc]

The respirating cluster produces quite a bit of water vapour - probably enough for utilizing fondant

 

[Hivemaker.]

That makes the water content no more than 11.5% water content.

I recall my supplier quoted around 12%. But that was a long time ago!

That means it needs a lot of water to get it to, say 17-18%. Time and effort required, so only done when bees are active. They will know if it is economic for them to transfer it to comb or just collect for metabolism.

Regards, RAB

Whichever way they do it Rab,they sure seem to be able to do it, for weeks on end at times, when outside temperature is far to cold to fly for water.

 

[BobsBees]

Fondant v Ambrosia or SS

Re the use of Ambrosia or Fondant.

I like to use ambrosia in the Spring to promote the Queen to get going in the absence of any pollen/nectar.
Not too keen on the over-use of Sugar Syrup as I have read so much about it assisting or promoting nosema.

Sugar syrup is ok in the spring when it gets a bit warmer as the girls can extract the water content more quickly, and they are not confined to the hive for very long periods.

I am continuing with my second year with a hive inside the greenhouse where the temperature never drops below 11/12c
It is only a Nuc National size containing 5 frames, absolutely stuffed with bees.
I have the top Crown board with two feeder holes the size of honey jar lids, one hole is covered with Fondant with a clingfilm cover, the other has a jar of set honey on it.
The latter is hardly touched, but the fondant is taken in just over a week to ten days.
The fondant is warmer being as its kept at a higher temperature so never dries out, but why don’t they take the honey? Perhaps the stores are full and they are just feeding for the sake of it, Any ideas?

I would love to install my mini camera so I could watch, but I don’t fancy a greenhouse full of bees at this time of the year.
Bob

 

[Hivemaker.]

Not too keen on the over-use of Sugar Syrup as I have read so much about it assisting or promoting nosema.

Yes so have i Bob,to do with the Ph,thats one of the reasons i use thymol in the syrup....yet one of the worst winters/ springs i ever had for nosema, was when i was only feeding fondant...and no syrup whatsoever in the autumn to any colony.

 

[BobsBees]

ok point taken thanks.