Why don’t my Bailey changes work?

[Stedic]

So, I’ve tried 3 Bailey changes on 3 strong hives. I’m chNging because I want to move from 14x12s to Nationals. However - none of them worked. Here’s what I did:

1) Placed brood box over existing box, then QE then the supers.
2) Checked weekly for signs that they were moving up.

But - while the supers were being filled, the new brood box was also drawn and used as a super. Brooding continued as normal in the 14x12 below in fact, 2 colonies even attempted to swarm despite all the space.

So I never got the opportunity to move the queen up. I wonder if they simply didn’t need the extra brood nest space? Should I have moved the queen up regardless of the lack of brood in the new box?

What should I have done differently?

 

[Hachi]

Bought the BBKA wipe clean laminated sheets explaining the process both in written and pictorial form

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just move the queen up there, bees don't differentiate between a brood box and a super - you've given them space above - they're storing in it.

 

[Beefriendly]

Bought the BBKA wipe clean laminated sheets explaining the process both in written and pictorial form

And use them as temporary crown boards?

 

[Madge]

So, I’ve tried 3 Bailey changes on 3 strong hives. I’m chNging because I want to move from 14x12s to Nationals. However - none of them worked. Here’s what I did:

1) Placed brood box over existing box, then QE then the supers. ...

What should I have done differently?

Place the queen excluder between the two brood boxes, not above them.

Start off without a queen excluder and then, once some frames of foundation have been drawn out in the new top box, and the queen has moved up there and started laying, add the QX above the bottom box, then an eke with an upper entrance, and then the new box (making sure the queen is up there).

As the brood frames in the bottom box become empty, remove them and replace them with dummies, or they'll become filled with nectar. Once all the brood has emerged, remove the bottom box.

 

[Hachi]

And use them as temporary crown boards?

Harsh, they're not that big

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Bought the BBKA wipe clean laminated sheets explaining the process both in written and pictorial form

I hear they are doing the module and 'Master' beekeeper certificates in wipe clean versions now....................................................

 

[Julie in Ash]

Did a class on bailey comb change last week. This might be just one way, but it made sense to me.

Step one. Place new brood box on top of existing box. Allow them a week to build up new comb.

Step two. Place the bailey board between the two boxes, (bailey entrance at front, queen excluder side face down) locate the queen and move her to the top box.

Step three. Seal up the original entrance forcing all flying bees to use the new bailey entrance. That way they aren’t traipsing through all the old mucky comb to get to the new clean box.

Step four. Make tea.

All the bees in the bottom box move up through the excluder once everything is hatched. There might be a few trapped drones though.

 

[Millet]

Did a class on bailey comb change last week. This might be just one way, but it made sense to me.

Step one. Place new brood box on top of existing box. Allow them a week to build up new comb.

Step two. Place the bailey board between the two boxes, (bailey entrance at front, queen excluder side face down) locate the queen and move her to the top box.

Step three. Seal up the original entrance forcing all flying bees to use the new bailey entrance. That way they aren’t traipsing through all the old mucky comb to get to the new clean box.

Step four. Make tea.

All the bees in the bottom box move up through the excluder once everything is hatched. There might be a few trapped drones though.

That may sound good on paper but practically i can not see it working..well not with my bees...

 

[Beefriendly]

That may sound good on paper but practically i can not see it working..well not with my bees...

Yes but your bees don't have nosema which what Dr. Bailey's comb change was developed for.

 

[Millet]

Yes but your bees don't have nosema which what Dr. Bailey's comb change was developed for.

So should i do a bailey comb thing OR treat the Nosema within the colony...which in my little book is easy to do..

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Yes but your bees don't have nosema which what Dr. Bailey's comb change was developed for.

If I recall as well - Bailey proscribed using sterilised drawn comb if available not foundation

 

[Stedic]

Place the queen excluder between the two brood boxes, not above them.

Start off without a queen excluder and then, once some frames of foundation have been drawn out in the new top box, and the queen has moved up there and started laying, add the QX above the bottom box, then an eke with an upper entrance, and then the new box (making sure the queen is up there).

As the brood frames in the bottom box become empty, remove them and replace them with dummies, or they'll become filled with nectar. Once all the brood has emerged, remove the bottom box.

Sorry, I didn’t explain myself clearly enough. This was what I intended to do, but because the queen never laid in the top box I didn’t move her. Obviously the 14x12 frame can’t go in the upper box, so it was hard to encourage them up.

 

[Madge]

Sorry, I didn’t explain myself clearly enough. This was what I intended to do, but because the queen never laid in the top box I didn’t move her. Obviously the 14x12 frame can’t go in the upper box, so it was hard to encourage them up.

So, you did put the queen excluder between the two boxes, as opposed to above them as you said in your opening post?

In that case, provided there is some drawn comb in the top box for the queen to lay in, follow Jenkins’ advice and just move her up.

Remove all broodless frames from the bottom box and replace them with dummies. Feed the colony if there isn’t a nectar flow as they won’t draw out frames in the top box otherwise. With no space in the bottom box for the bees to store nectar and pollen (or syrup), they will have to move up.

 

[Madge]

If I recall as well - Bailey proscribed using sterilised drawn comb if available not foundation

Proscribed? Must be a typo.

 

[Madge]

So should i do a bailey comb thing OR treat the Nosema within the colony...which in my little book is easy to do..

What is your little book’s easy solution to Nosema?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Proscribed? Must be a typo.

yes

 

[madasafish]

What is your little book’s easy solution to Nosema?

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=49691#post49691

 

[Millet]

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=49691#post49691

Perfect..

 

[pargyle]

So, I’ve tried 3 Bailey changes on 3 strong hives. I’m chNging because I want to move from 14x12s to Nationals. However - none of them worked. Here’s what I did:

1) Placed brood box over existing box, then QE then the supers.
2) Checked weekly for signs that they were moving up.

But - while the supers were being filled, the new brood box was also drawn and used as a super. Brooding continued as normal in the 14x12 below in fact, 2 colonies even attempted to swarm despite all the space.

So I never got the opportunity to move the queen up. I wonder if they simply didn’t need the extra brood nest space? Should I have moved the queen up regardless of the lack of brood in the new box?

What should I have done differently?

All sounds like a lot of faffing about to move from 14 x 12's to standard nationals .. if they are strong colonies and you are going to nationals you will be on either brood and a half or double brood - moreso if they are already trying to swarm !

I would have just replaced the 14 x 12 frames, a couple at a time, in the centre of the brood nest with your nationals interleaved with the 14 x 12. They will draw them quickly in the flow and the queen will show a preference for laying in the new comb. Over a few weeks you would have drawn and brood filled standard frames (might be a bit of free comb on the bottom of the frames). Once you have a few national frames forming the brood nest .. move them into a standard national box. Shake the bees off the frames into the new National box. Extract any honey from the remaining 14 x 12 frames ... feed it back to them and they will draw out comb on the new undrawn nationals.

Get ready to do swarm preps ... or give them a drawn super for your brood and a half ..

Personally ... unless you have a very good reason to move from 14 x 12 to nationals .. I'd give up and stay with 14 x 12's !