Why can't I feed 1:1?

[Skyhook]

There have been a couple of threads recently where people have asked if they should switch to 1:1, and been told it's too early.

Now I understand why you don't feed syrup in thew winter- but a lot of people are now providing water or weak syrup to assist brooding. If they still have some stores to dilute but not much, why can they not use 1:1 either directly for feeding brood, or for diluting stores, but with a lower rate of attrition on the remaining stores?

I expect I'm missing the point, but at the moment it seems like a good idea. My hives have pollen substitute patties, a little income, and currently a small bottle feeder of 1:4.: and are raising brood. Is there any reason I shouldn't replace the bottle feeder with a litre of 1:1 in a rapid feeder?

 

[oliver90owner]

No problem, your choice. Me? I'm getting the entrance feeders filled up with mostly water!

 

[Bob Bee]

There have been a couple of threads recently where people have asked if they should switch to 1:1, and been told it's too early.

Now I understand why you don't feed syrup in thew winter- but a lot of people are now providing water or weak syrup to assist brooding. If they still have some stores to dilute but not much, why can they not use 1:1 either directly for feeding brood, or for diluting stores, but with a lower rate of attrition on the remaining stores?

I expect I'm missing the point, but at the moment it seems like a good idea. My hives have pollen substitute patties, a little income, and currently a small bottle feeder of 1:4.: and are raising brood. Is there any reason I shouldn't replace the bottle feeder with a litre of 1:1 in a rapid feeder?

I'm feeding some 1-1 to ONE overwintered nuke as I was uncertain about stores and it had finished fondant put in in December.
When I kept bees further north I used to feed a little to help with build up, usually early April. I'm now in west Cornwall where it's significantly warmer anyway and the forecast for March is mild. I don't feed all bees all of the time and choose which and when from experience and my own judgement. Like Finman I feel that bees manage build up well without much additional support, but there are exceptions to every rule.
Whats early, whats late, whats the weather forecast ?. If you take too much notice of everybody's advice on the forum you'd never get the roof on the hive long enough to let them forage.

 

[REDWOOD]

This weekend I will be feeding 1:1

 

[madasafish]

1:1 sugar solution would have frozen overnight last night... well almost...

If it's too cold to have plants in greenhouse, too cold for syrup is my rule...

 

[Hebeegeebee]

One commercial guy near me used syrup feed now to stimulate brood rearing so he's got plenty of bees for OSR.

 

[itma]

... If they still have some stores to dilute but not much, why can they not use 1:1 either directly for feeding brood, or for diluting stores, but with a lower rate of attrition on the remaining stores?

I expect I'm missing the point, but at the moment it seems like a good idea. My hives have pollen substitute patties, a little income, and currently a small bottle feeder of 1:4.: and are raising brood. Is there any reason I shouldn't replace the bottle feeder with a litre of 1:1 in a rapid feeder?

I have understood the question to be "when should brood expansion be stimulated?" and because there's no point in boosting brooding beyond what the bees can handle, and that depends on weather and available forage, the answer comes down to what you think your local climate is likely to do from then on.
Without adequate forage coming in, supporting a growing colony, which is also running at a higher 'burn rate' to warm the larger brood area, is likely to chew through remaining stores very quickly.
I think the risk is that if you turn the gas up too soon, the colony would start expanding and then either crash or need a lot of emergency feeding.
So, there is beelore about specific plants flowering, but are there other ways that people decide just when to 'force the pace' a bit? (if they do it at all).
I'm presuming that one fundamental is down to predicting the point 21 days before there is no shortage of forage ...


And please tell me more about the use of 1:4 ... would that be what RAB means by "mostly water"?

 

[Winker]

I'm sure Finman will be along soon to tell you that feeding 1:1 syrup does not encourage brooding, and hes right. If your hive has enough stores at this point in time, i would not be feeding anything. Pollen is what the bees need to bring brood up. Yes they need some sort of carbohydrate but if there is enough stores in the hive any 1:1 you feed them will just be stored in valuable laying space.

 

[Swarm]

 

[Mike a]

I'm sure Finman will be along soon to tell you that feeding 1:1 syrup does not encourage brooding, and hes right. If your hive has enough stores at this point in time, i would not be feeding anything. Pollen is what the bees need to bring brood up. Yes they need some sort of carbohydrate but if there is enough stores in the hive any 1:1 you feed them will just be stored in valuable laying space.

TLC not mothering.
Inspect and gauge the amount of stores.
I also agree with another post, the past few days its been frosty (even down here in the south) if you must feed give them fondant not syrup.

 

[Rosti]

I think feeding is the wrong term. You are stimulating. Enough nutrient for them to think there is a consistent flow on to get laying going, water to use up stores easily and not so much that they fill the brood area with syrup hence only up to 1tr a week for a relatively short period. Not so soon that if it gets cold you have more brood than bees to over it Still too early for me, back half of March subject to weather and no, I have only passing interest on the suitability of my plans for a Finish season and climate!

 

[oliver90owner]

I think the risk is that if you turn the gas up too soon, the colony would start expanding and then either crash or need a lot of emergency feeding.

It is correct that the colony may get so big, and the stores are depleted, that it needs feeding if the flow does not arrive at the appointed time. Not exactly 'emergency' though if the beekeeper is on top of the job. Just routine, a pain and expensive.

1:1 syrup does not encourage brooding, and hes right

He's wrong. What the non-thinkers don't get is that 1:1 is 50% water. It is that, which the bees need more than the sugar. That is why I give them a very handy water supply - when it is too cold outside for bees to fly for water, an internal, overhead, or adjacent source is better. The worker bees do not need it, but the developing (as in growing) larvae do (via the nurse bees of course). If it has to be 1:1. then so be it. For me it certainly is not (at least once the bees start using it).

Why do bees collect water? Not just for the fun of it, you can be assured.

 

[Skyhook]

I think the risk is that if you turn the gas up too soon, the colony would start expanding and then either crash or need a lot of emergency feeding.

It is correct that the colony may get so big, and the stores are depleted, that it needs feeding if the flow does not arrive at the appointed time. Not exactly 'emergency' though if the beekeeper is on top of the job. Just routine, a pain and expensive.

1:1 syrup does not encourage brooding, and hes right

He's wrong. What the non-thinkers don't get is that 1:1 is 50% water. It is that, which the bees need more than the sugar. That is why I give them a very handy water supply - when it is too cold outside for bees to fly for water, an internal, overhead, or adjacent source is better. The worker bees do not need it, but the developing (as in growing) larvae do (via the nurse bees of course). If it has to be 1:1. then so be it. For me it certainly is not (at least once the bees start using it).

Why do bees collect water? Not just for the fun of it, you can be assured.

This is sort of my point. I'm giving weak suryp as a more attractive form of water. As the stores are getting low- ish, I thought this would kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

I should have mentioned that I'm hoping to get an OSR crop, therefore wanting them to build as early as poss.

 

[Dishmop]

My Obs hive bees are drinking approx half a mug full of water every two days.

 

[oliver90owner]

Skyhook,

Go for two big colonies for the OSR - you will likely get more honey than all three being average.

I am not bothering too much to build up early this year. I shall be doing just that, likely ditching a few queens as well. I shall await the OSR development, and decide what to do later.

 

[drstitson]

surely the point is you want to bees to be using the stores they have to allow plenty of room for brood expansion.

syrup gives them too easy an alternative. water will give them what they need to use stores.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

If the remaining stores were granulated, then thin syrup would allow them to be utilised.

Related to this, I think I recall Finman writing that to help bees use up granulated stores, they could be uncapped, dipped in a bucket of water and then returned. (I may just be plain wrong and dreamed it all).

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Related to this, I think I recall Finman writing that to help bees use up granulated stores, they could be uncapped, dipped in a bucket of water and then returned. (I may just be plain wrong and dreamed it all).

Someone certainly suggested that last year, I tried it and was pleased with the result

 

[Skyhook]

If they still have some stores to dilute but not much,

surely the point is you want to bees to be using the stores they have to allow plenty of room for brood expansion.

syrup gives them too easy an alternative. water will give them what they need to use stores.

They are currently down to 2-3 frames with lots of empty space, which was part of the point behind the OP.