white bee

[beehive1234]

I gladly and do keep bees not expecting honey because if they do not survive we are all doomed. I will be on this planet a few years more. Only some of those years with the bees.
They will be handed to others.
I fear that sugar will be a rare thing again when the oil runs out. It is vital we stop having to use sugar at all. Let alone think it is a long term solution.
We are concentrating on varoa when this insane sugar thing is right under our noses and getting out of control. What are we telling the bees.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

who says bees are dying out? (well, apart from the daily mail that is) sugar wasn't rare before they discovered oil, why should it be if oil runs out?.

In general a lot of nonsense being spoken all hinged around a quote (based on scanty and inaccurate information) wrongly atributed to Einstein who would never have said such a ridiculous unqualified statement anyway.

nothing wrong with feeding sugar to bees if they need it.

Let's geat real

 

[Erichalfbee]

Absolutely
If there were pools of sugar lying about I'm sure bees would be there in preference to flowers from which the sugar is more difficult to extract.
There aren't unless you count honeydew......and that's another beast!

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Absolutely
If there were pools of sugar lying about I'm sure bees would be there in preference to flowers from which the sugar is more difficult to extract.
There aren't unless you count honeydew......and that's another beast!

Not forgetting "some" sugar comes from cane imports, which "might" be influenced by third world shipping fuel availability, but a hellofalot comes from home grown beet. Whichever source it comes from its all sucrose.
I think I detect a crusading naturalist in the thread

 

[Skyhook]

Only then to put on fondant. It proved successful with the warre and the bees always look weeker to me having syrup being fed to them. They are small colonies so no honey has been removed. Sugar isn't natural. They need what nature can give them in what they have collected for millennia.

Which is sugar, made by plants by photosynthesis. A little bit of this can be exuded as nectar. Most of it will be taken into the body of the plant which is where we get our sugar from- the stems of sugar cane or the roots of sugar beet. All completely natural.

I feed mine sugar syrup with the advantage that I can thymolize it. I've never lost a colony, and they appear strong, happy and healthy on it.


.

 

[BeeJayBee]

... sugar, made by plants by photosynthesis.

If there were pools of sugar lying about I'm sure bees would be there in preference to flowers from which the sugar is more difficult to extract.
There aren't unless you count honeydew......and that's another beast!

Extrafloral nectaries don't just benefit ants, they benefit the plants too! http://www.botgard.ucla.edu/html/botanytextbooks/lifeforms/antplants/extrafloralnectaries.html

Huge numbers of plants have them http://biosci-labs.unl.edu/Emeriti/keeler/extrafloral/worldlistfamilies.htm

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think I detect a crusading naturalist in the thread

Ah! my secret's out -
but I do try and make sure the neighbours are out before I walk around the garden naked

 

[Little John]

C'mon guys, you're not playing fair - there's a whole array of chemical compounds in nectar. As well as sugars, there are often proteins (both as amino acids and non-protein amino acids), lipids, alkaloids, coumarins, saponins, phenolics, terpenoids, as well as enzymes (such as phosphatase), and of course organic acids.

And then there's the pollen which the bees bring back at the same time - which contribute another pot-pourri of chemical compounds - some of which are really quite exotic.

It ain't just simply Tate & Lyles's finest

LJ

 

[mbc]

C'mon guys, you're not playing fair - there's a whole array of chemical compounds in nectar. As well as sugars, there are often proteins (both as amino acids and non-protein amino acids), lipids, alkaloids, coumarins, saponins, phenolics, terpenoids, as well as enzymes (such as phosphatase), and of course organic acids.

And then there's the pollen which the bees bring back at the same time - which contribute another pot-pourri of chemical compounds - some of which are really quite exotic.

It ain't just simply Tate & Lyles's finest

LJ

Agreed, but then its not the whole picture either. An easy supply of carbohydrate free's up more foraging power to collect pollen, and no ones saying feeding sugar prevents bees from foraging on any naturally available nectar.

 

[pargyle]

Agreed, but then its not the whole picture either. An easy supply of carbohydrate free's up more foraging power to collect pollen, and no ones saying feeding sugar prevents bees from foraging on any naturally available nectar.

Mine seem to take syrup down overnight more than they do during the daytime which leads me to suppose that they concentrate on packing foraged stores away during the time they can fly and then, being the opportunists they are, get into the syrup more when they can't fly ? ...

There doesn't seem to be any less flying activity when there is a feeder on the hive (from my observation). As long as they have space to put it in I can't see that feeding them, when they need it, is anything other than beneficial.

 

[farbee]

Thank you Little John. How perseptive of you.
Perhaps it is the bees lost attention to the natural forage. When I give them syrup. It looks odd to me.
As if they are on drugs.
They are not bees any longer. They are not so enthusiastic to fight for life.
To toil to survive. Man is forcing his ideals on his pets.
They will get sugar.
They will not get all the things we know nothing about.
Unyet we do know some of the benefits of honey.
Their food.
Yet we feed them sugar?
Am I making any sence?
Replace a complecated elixir like honey .........with sugar?
Then poisen them now and again.
Thank God 50% survive.

No!!

 

[mbc]

No!!

Concise and to the point. Bravo !

 

[Little John]

Agreed, but then its not the whole picture either. An easy supply of carbohydrate free's up more foraging power to collect pollen, and no ones saying feeding sugar prevents bees from foraging on any naturally available nectar.

There may well be truth in that - but even this still isn't the whole picture ...

For example - this very morning I did my usual rounds, and became aware of many bees bringing back 'something' other than pollen. They were all very obviously coming and going in the same direction - 'in a beeline', so to speak

So I followed their path, only to quickly realise that my top field was the attraction - within which is the long-suffering hive I use primarily for experiments - which was being robbed.

Here's a shot of an emergency shield I put up (there's a much bigger and better one in place now) :

I spent a good half-hour watching the girls bring back pollen - side-stepping the scrum - and simply taking it in via the side entrance past the shield. I still can't figure out why robber bees don't follow them in. Too excited, I guess.

Now - all my other hives are full to the gills with 2:1 syrup - so why are their bees motivated to rob honey so late in the season ? As it takes energy to rob, the only conclusion I can draw is that honey must be far more attractive to them than the syrup they already have lots of. As to exactly why it's more attractive, I couldn't say - but my money would be on the honey containing those ingredients that the syrup does not.

At the very least it has a smell that the bees recognise as being 'what they want' - with that smell being an indicator of their natural food reserves.

LJ

 

[Little John]

Not forgetting "some" sugar comes from cane imports, which "might" be influenced by third world shipping fuel availability, but a hellofalot comes from home grown beet. Whichever source it comes from its all sucrose.
I think I detect a crusading naturalist in the thread

If you're going to be dismissive of someone who holds a different viewpoint, then at least be accurate.

Granulated sugar is typically 99.9% sucrose - the remaining 0.1% contains 'impurities'. These are typically iron, potasium, calcium and Vit B12, but can also contain pesticide residues.

'Purity' in any compound which has undergone a chemical reaction is a myth. You only need look at analytical grade laboratory reagents, which are as pure as anyone can get (without spending HUGE sums of money on further purification), but even they are never 100% pure.

LJ

 

[beehive1234]

OuNowhere did I say bees WILL die out. Bumble bee species have died out and are dieing out.
My concern is, it appears from what is being written on this forum that there is a pride in just how much sugar water is being stored in hives.

Are we giving the bees a chance to collect their proper food.
Are stores of sugar water preventing laying of eggs.
Is sugar water the best stores for the bees.
Perhaps it is comparibal to feeding children fat and sugar rather than fruit and fibre.
They may choose a kinder egg over an apple, but which will be more beneficial to their health.
Apart from the nutrition aspect, does anyone know if honey stays warmer than sugar water in the hive. Is there a thermal insulation benefit also.
It is known sugar water is a aid to disease in spring. Apparently not with thymol.
I did hear from my association that 50% of hives died last year in England and Wales. Was the information incorrect.
I will be putting fondant on my hives. Sugar.....that is perfectly natural. Only as an emergency food stuff.
Thank you for all the replies.
LJ if you don't want the honey why don't you let your bees make good use of it. Unless you think it is contaminated of course.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm sorry but I despair at some of the cr&p being propounded on this thread

 

[Little John]

I'm sorry but I despair at some of the cr&p being propounded on this thread

So now we know that you despair of something. So what ?

How exactly does your post add anything of interest or value to this thread ?

Is this how you've managed to clock-up 5,800 posts in just 2 1/2 years ?

LJ

 

[Little John]

LJ if you don't want the honey why don't you let your bees make good use of it. Unless you think it is contaminated of course.

They do keep their honey - I'm not interested in it - can't stand the stuff.

I happen to live in a 'nectar desert' where they cannot collect enough honey to see themselves through the winter - that's why I'm compelled to feed at least some sugar right throughout the year, but mostly in the build-up to winter.

LJ

 

[madasafish]

So now we know that you despair of something. So what ?

How exactly does your post add anything of interest or value to this thread ?

Is this how you've managed to clock-up 5,800 posts in just 2 1/2 years ?

LJ

I think you are being unkind.. It's clear to me that Jenkins is being diplomatic instead of really saying what he really thinks.

Life depends on such niceties

(see politicians who may think voters are idiots but only one recent PM dared to say so --- think "bigot")

 

[pargyle]

.

OuNowhere did I say bees WILL die out. (Some) Bumble bee species have died out and are dieing out.

But that problem is as much about changes in habitat as anything else.

My concern is, it appears from what is being written on this forum that there is a pride in just how much sugar water is being stored in hives.

I think Beekeepers of any flavour will only feed their bees if they see a need for it ... you can't force feed them.

Are we giving the bees a chance to collect their proper food.

They will still forage even when you feed them ... feeding is a matter of judgement to ensure that they have ENOUGH stores to see them through the winter.

Are stores of sugar water preventing laying of eggs.

No, if anything it tends to have the opposite effect ... the queen will stop laying when she decides it's time .. at this time of the year brood is starting to reduce and possibly, when it gets colder, stop. Again, it's a question of judgement ... she should not run out of room to lay if she still wants to lay.

Is sugar water the best stores for the bees.
Perhaps it is comparibal to feeding children fat and sugar rather than fruit and fibre.

Rubbish ... it's not 'Sugar water' you are feeding it's sucrose carried in an aqueous solution ... it's basically the same as fondant but with more water.

They may choose a kinder egg over an apple, but which will be more beneficial to their health.

Bees eat honey ... which is sugar ... I would agree that honey is better for them, but, if they don't have enough honey then the choice is not honey or apple .... it's honey or starve.

Apart from the nutrition aspect, does anyone know if honey stays warmer than sugar water in the hive. Is there a thermal insulation benefit also.
It is known sugar water is a aid to disease in spring. Apparently not with thymol.

Rubbish ..they store syrup in exactly the same way as honey ...they will ripen the syrup and cap it. It's obviously important to recognise when they can no longer ripen and stop feeding before that as uncapped syrup can go mouldy in the comb ... thymol will help if you are happy to have it in your hive

I did hear from my association that 50% of hives died last year in England and Wales. Was the information incorrect.

There were heavy losses reported from last winter as a result of the inordinately late start to Spring amongst myriad other factors .. but bees multiply quickly and colony losses can be very rapidly restored ... as may well have occurred in the good season we have just experienced.

I will be putting fondant on my hives. Sugar.....that is perfectly natural. Only as an emergency food stuff.

There is no difference between sugar syrup and fondant. It is still warm enough in many places to feed them 2:1 which they will store ... fondant (IMO) is better for putting in place if they need feeding late winter early spring ... when they will eat it rather than store it.

Thank you for all the replies.
LJ if you don't want the honey why don't you let your bees make good use of it. Unless you think it is contaminated of course

Most beekeepers on here - particularly hobby ones (Finman excepted) will leave honey in the hives for their colonies over winter. Topping the stores up, as required, with syrup in the autumn and if we get a long winter like last year - fondant.